00a1zx12r
Novice Class
Posts: 93
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posted August 11, 2013 08:07 PM
Gunner, I found a tsugiki stainless for about $:,1200. Have u heard of them? I can't pm u for some reason. Email me at Jason@kusserusa.com. there a pipe from japan.
  
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted August 12, 2013 12:34 AM
At least in Europe Akra still makes pipes for our bikes even if they don't list it anymore in US market. Not in Ti anymore but the SS version is stilla avaivable: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AKRAPOVIC-Auspuff-Anlage-KAWASAKI-ZX-12-R-00-06-RACING-TITAN-OVAL-EG-BE-/390267518779?pt=Motorrad_Kraftradteile&hash=item5addc1bf3b but they are little pricier...
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted August 12, 2013 08:41 PM
I don't know anything about tsugiki exhaust so I can not say one way or the other. If you can't get the Arata the Akra is the second choice. The Arata is the cream of the crop in so many ways. Even the opening at the end of the can is HUGE compared to the Akra.. Vince Hill has always raved about his Hindle again I've not had one but I don't consider it in the same league with the top of the line pipes since it's MIG welded and just not as finished of a product.... But Hell I seen those YoYo's on Fast and loud using a MIG welder on the motor mounts of an F40 Ferrari the other day so I can at least say now I've seen it all. As I watched that I was thinking those guys need to be beat to death for doing that. There's a right way to do anything and everything and many wrong ways to do anything and everything. The Akra pipe in the picture in the link above this post is a picture of their Titanium Evolution Series pipe not the Stainless Steel model.
I found a picture of both my 12R's back when I had both at one time..Silver bike has Arata and the Red one Akra
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted August 12, 2013 10:46 PM
Well in fact my Akra is not the Evolution (full TI) but a hybrid that has ss headers and ti link pipe and ti can. Didn't know one exist but bought it second hand with 500 miles on it (and not a single scratch) last year for half the new price so couldn't pass on it... What I like on Akra compared to many other pipes (Muzzy, Yoshimura, Micron,...) (never seen Arata with my own eyes) is that they're not very loud yet make (at least) the same power .
One think about Akra is that you really have to have way to tune the fuel with it (like any pipe) because when I changed from OEM I had to take like 30% fuel away below 4000RPM. But had to put more after that 
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00a1zx12r
Novice Class
Posts: 93
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posted August 14, 2013 05:07 AM
Hey Gunner and fellow ZX12R'S. I got this link emailed to me from www.webike.net. The have just about every exotic exhaust there is for the ZX12R.
http://japan.webike.net/KAWASAKI/ZX-12R/Complete+exhaust+systems/475/1002/mc/
Which one would you pick if money was not a problem and which one would you pick if you wanted the best bang for your buck??
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00a1zx12r
Novice Class
Posts: 93
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posted August 14, 2013 05:10 AM
quote:
I don't know anything about tsugiki exhaust so I can not say one way or the other. If you can't get the Arata the Akra is the second choice. The Arata is the cream of the crop in so many ways. Even the opening at the end of the can is HUGE compared to the Akra.. Vince Hill has always raved about his Hindle again I've not had one but I don't consider it in the same league with the top of the line pipes since it's MIG welded and just not as finished of a product.... But Hell I seen those YoYo's on Fast and loud using a MIG welder on the motor mounts of an F40 Ferrari the other day so I can at least say now I've seen it all. As I watched that I was thinking those guys need to be beat to death for doing that. There's a right way to do anything and everything and many wrong ways to do anything and everything. The Akra pipe in the picture in the link above this post is a picture of their Titanium Evolution Series pipe not the Stainless Steel model.
I found a picture of both my 12R's back when I had both at one time..Silver bike has Arata and the Red one Akra
Thanks for the pics Gunner, They're such big beautiful machines. I have always had a passion for this bike. So much better looking than the 14.
For some reason I can't figure out how to post pics up on this board. When I do, I'll post up some pics of mine.
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted August 14, 2013 11:09 AM
quote:
Hey Gunner and fellow ZX12R'S. I got this link emailed to me from www.webike.net. The have just about every exotic exhaust there is for the ZX12R.
http://japan.webike.net/KAWASAKI/ZX-12R/Complete+exhaust+systems/475/1002/mc/
Which one would you pick if money was not a problem and which one would you pick if you wanted the best bang for your buck??
The one thing about Webike's site is their broken language and trying to figure out what they are saying. But putting that aside. Striker is the owner of Arata. In fact Arata is a Striker with a different name tag. It appears the Trick Star pipes are also built by Striker as well. All Arata pipes sold in the US are Titanium but it appears Striker makes these in Stainless Steel also they just don't export them to Arata for sale. That could be Owen's choice or maybe they just didn't give him the option. Spending the difference in price for a Ti pipe for a 12R is about retarded unless you're planning to put one on a serious diet like I've done with my 12R and every last once counts. You will save about 2 pounds over Stainless going to Titanium for the header verses Stainless Steel. I did not know at the time I bought mine many years back that Striker was the same pipe.... Webike also carries BEET pipes and they are also a very top of the line pipe.,. I think they are ALL OVER PRICED if you want my honest opinion. If Arata had offered this pipe in Stainless Steel I would have bought it over the Titanium for the 2 pounds difference I can't justify since I weigh 200 pounds I could skip a few milkshakes and gain that 2 pound back if you know what I mean.. However as it turned out the 12R project I've been working on for the last couple years where everything is Ti, Magnesium, or Carbon Fiber the Ti pipe ended up being a smart idea after all.
I'm not trying to tell you what to do with your money or your bike and I want to make that clear. I'm just trying to help you to not spend your money in the wrong places because I want to see the remaining 12Rs that aren't trashed out built into nice bikes and taken care of.
If you haven't made contact with Ship yet you need to and let him see if he can get hold of an Arata pipe. I'm sure there's a few left sitting around in someone's inventory waiting to find a new home. Ti Force also made a top quality pipe for the 12R. It was a bit strange how they made it but I do know some people that had that pipe that made good power.. And I'm not saying an Aka is a bad pipe it's just not up to the standards of an Arata/ Striker
Sometimes you just got to swallow hard and pay the man when you want the best.. I bought a new TIG welder about a year back I wanted a Miller Dynasty 350 but those cost right at $9,000 to buy so I bought a knock off version that had a money back guarantee on them for 30 days.. Before the 30 days was up I was shipping it back and swallowing hard to choke up the $9,000 for the Dynasty . It sucked ass but owning the best of anything cost a lot. You get what you pay for in short terms. I would wait for Owen and in the mean time I would Get in tou
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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00a1zx12r
Novice Class
Posts: 93
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posted August 14, 2013 12:23 PM
Well, at this point, I will have until mid October to search and make my decision on the exhaust. The striker on the webike site looks pretty sick to me. At this point, I would rather spend the money on something really nice and get it tuned properly. Your right, you get what you pay for. I hate making a decision based on $$$, then you install it and have buyers remorse. It sucks when you could have spent maybe just a couple hundred more dollars and got what you wanted.
I just dropped the bike off to get my clutch redone. Billet basket and internals. I will also be installing the 17 tooth counter sprocket in this round. I will get the bike back in about 30days. My shop is doing the work and letting me pay him off. This will be a fun round!! lower gearing and a clutch that works without that OEM basket lurking over my head. (I've heard so many stories of that dreadful stock basket exploding).
Anyways, Shoot me any email Jason@kusserusa.com. For some reason I can't pm you on here. Thanks again for all the help. I rode the bike today and really love it!! It's a true muscle bike in sportbike form.
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted August 14, 2013 01:49 PM
Back when I was building my FunnyBike I wanted to build a Hilborn Injected Alcohol engine package but I thought it was just too expensive for me to build. The Man that you seen back at that time for such a project was Bill Hahn Sr. Bill was the smartest man I've ever had the privilege to be on first name basis with and call my friend. Bill told me building the carb motor bike actually cost more than the injected package that he sold but I couldn't see it. What I later learned the expensive way because I had to buy all his stuff later on anyway was you get what you pay for and quality parts cost money! As an example the 3 speed automatic transmissions to choose between at that time was the Orient Express 3 speed or the one Bill designed and sold the KMS 3 speed. The KMS sold for $2,300 at that time and the Orient sold for right around $1,800.. But the KMS NEVER BROKE!!! They never broke and they didn't use shifting forks to get bent every time you roll up off the throttle in any gear except 3rd. The Orient also required an additional air shifter that the KMS came standard with.. One weekend with the Orient could turn into a junked motor if you got crossed up and had to roll off the gas for any reason if you didn't open up the motor and replace the shift forks that were without fail bent! The KMS allowed for rolling off the gas in any gear without breaking or bending any parts because it was designed by a man so much more intelligent than the rest. Bill was a modern day Einstein when it came to designing and building parts. His skills were second to NONE on this planet. He was right the carb package did indeed cost more than his Alcohol injected package when you added up the cost of everything involved. Bill sold quality and he stood behind his quality. I lost a friend when he passed that can never be replaced but he taught me to never take the easy rout and always look at the big picture before spending money. I like to think I'm following on his teachings that for some reason he took pity on me and spent the time to pound into my thick head! I would rather take more time to gather my parts than rush and buy a bunch of stuff that will have to be replaced later. The red 12R above that I posted the picture of with the Arata pipe is the actually bike that was in the movie Biker Boys that Kid Rock rode in the movie. When Dale (the owner) bought the thing it still had that nasty looking paint job on it and it had a Muzzy pipe as well. The Muzzy pipe was junked and replaced by the Arata. You realize that the Arata isn't a cheap pipe and for the cost of one they could have used anyone's pipe but they didn't use just any pipe they used the best pipe out there on what later turned out to be the fastest NA 12R on the planet and it's just 1287cc. The 12R cylinder head is superior to everything out there with the BMW S1000 and I'm not sure about the 14R, but I am sure of the Gen 1 ZX14 and it was superior to that one. The bike has always made more power with less CC's than a Busa ever dreamed. NOW if you're talking the baddest bike on the planet power wise than a Busa wins that with ease for many reason. But if you're talking street bike that runs on pump gas the 12R is hard to beat and always has been. And it also goes around corners nicely to boot! The Busa is lacking in the cornering market to say the least.
The billet basket is a good insurance policy but the stock basket isn't all that weak. Keep this in mind always... The 12R isn't a Busa and it's not a 14 or 14R either.. This relates to the clutch size only. The 12R clutch is the weak link in the motor. There's all the clutch you'll ever need unless you're one of these guys that abuse a clutch or drag race the bike. In that case the billet basket is necessary. There's a modification to do on the clutch Hub that allows more oil to find it's way to the clutch plates I highly recommend you have that done while you're in there. Make sure you replace the springs for sure on this trip inside. While you're at it I would have the pan dropped and replace the oil pick up along with wash out the pan good for any old clutch materials. The pick up is just plastic and not expensive unless your's is nearly clogged up than the price of that little part adds up fast. These are Preventive maintenance measures that will go along ways to keep your motor healthy.
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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00a1zx12r
Novice Class
Posts: 93
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posted August 15, 2013 11:34 AM
I'm going to try and post some pics of my zx12r, my previous monster, a ZRX1224R with big bore kit and everything I could through at it, and the pic and dyno graph of the striker exhaust that you can order from www.webike.net.
[URL=http://s1347.photobucket.com/user/00a1zx12r/media/1372793428288_zps39a9bb68.jpg.html] [/URL]
[URL=http://s1347.photobucket.com/user/00a1zx12r/media/1373694362049_zps02b46c49.jpg.html] [/URL]
[URL=http://s1347.photobucket.com/user/00a1zx12r/media/944567_356682337792815_663914979_n_zps79c12aca.jpg.html] [/URL]
[URL=http://s1347.photobucket.com/user/00a1zx12r/media/striker_zps35ecbc87.jpg.html] [/URL]
[URL=http://s1347.photobucket.com/user/00a1zx12r/media/graph_zx12_zpsa5ce291c.gif.html] [/URL]
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted August 15, 2013 01:46 PM
That last picture of the Striker pipe is an Arata or better put the Arata is indeed a Striker with a different name plate attached to it. But I'm telling you this....I wouldn't pay what they are asking for that pipe and I damn sure didn't pay that much for mine when I bought it. They can be had NEW a lot cheaper than those prices. I've never ask you what's your plans for your 12R? You building a a street bike or a drag bike with extended wheelbase ? Unless you're planning to build a 12R that will go around corners you can get by with a lot cheaper pipe. Building a pipe that is good everywhere is what makes them expensive. As much as I hate anything Muzzy his POS pipe is fine for wide open throttle (drag racing ) but not worth a damn for someone that likes corners. There's more than one thread where Muzzy owners complained about the flat spots in their power curb and erratic idling issues..
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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00a1zx12r
Novice Class
Posts: 93
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posted August 15, 2013 04:28 PM
quote:
That last picture of the Striker pipe is an Arata or better put the Arata is indeed a Striker with a different name plate attached to it. But I'm telling you this....I wouldn't pay what they are asking for that pipe and I damn sure didn't pay that much for mine when I bought it. They can be had NEW a lot cheaper than those prices. I've never ask you what's your plans for your 12R? You building a a street bike or a drag bike with extended wheelbase ? Unless you're planning to build a 12R that will go around corners you can get by with a lot cheaper pipe. Building a pipe that is good everywhere is what makes them expensive. As much as I hate anything Muzzy his POS pipe is fine for wide open throttle (drag racing ) but not worth a damn for someone that likes corners. There's more than one thread where Muzzy owners complained about the flat spots in their power curb and erratic idling issues..
I'm more into street riding, corners, big long sweepers. Getting in it on winding on on/off ramps that swirl around then switch back. I'm trying to focus an learning low corners.
When I had the ZRX it was all about high speed straight runs. My gearing was 16/45 with 160hp/100 lbs . The zx12 to me reserves more than that. I like to feel a linear power curve that pulls hard all the way through to redline. The brocks was great for WOT on the ZRX. That's probably why I blew my big block 1224 up. It ran shitty under 4000rpms. I want to treat my zx12 with better manners.
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted August 18, 2013 11:29 AM
I'm a died in the wool Akrapovic man - Gunner and I have had many discussions about pipes over the years and I would not disagree that the Arata is a nice pipe. Not $2000 nice IMO if that's what its going to take for you to get one, but nice.
I have a new Akrapovic on my bike and if I was going to replace my pipe tomorrow I could not do that. They don't make them for the ZX-12R anymore and if you find one and don't want it, email me and I will buy it and sit on it for 5 years and double my money. :-)
That being said, if my pipe were to be damaged beyond repair today I have no clue where I would start looking or what I would end up with. I can't buy a new Akra so who knows.
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"BTW....You need to get a girlfriend who's last name isn't .jpg"
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00a1zx12r
Novice Class
Posts: 93
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posted August 19, 2013 06:08 PM
quote:
I'm a died in the wool Akrapovic man - Gunner and I have had many discussions about pipes over the years and I would not disagree that the Arata is a nice pipe. Not $2000 nice IMO if that's what its going to take for you to get one, but nice.
I have a new Akrapovic on my bike and if I was going to replace my pipe tomorrow I could not do that. They don't make them for the ZX-12R anymore and if you find one and don't want it, email me and I will buy it and sit on it for 5 years and double my money. :-)
That being said, if my pipe were to be damaged beyond repair today I have no clue where I would start looking or what I would end up with. I can't buy a new Akra so who knows.
From my research, the Akra made the best pipe for the money. There was nothing wrong anywhere with that pipe. I had no idea how frustrating it was trying to find an aftermarket exhaust. Almost to the point of almost just keeping the stock pipe and Yoshi RS3 slip-on. Ok, not really, but the search for exhaust for the ZX12R is either cheap or super exspensive.
Some of the muzzy cans are more attractive than most IMO., but the full system is hardest to tune. Brock's are great for WOT. There nasty loud. Makes your bike sound like a monster. There's no hiding from the Brock's. street meg or Alienhead. Everybody hears you coming. That's for sure.
Or your only other options are ordering from Japan which is exspensive!. Www.webike.net
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted August 19, 2013 08:09 PM
Well, personally I think the Akrapovic is the finest pipe on the market. My opinion.
I would not own a Muzzy pipe. The low to mid range driveability issues and propensity to burn lowers up are well known. I guess if all I did was a 1/4 mile at a time maybe, but I don't so it's a non-decision.
I think if I were you and knowing what's available on the market anymore for these bikes I'd throw a nice Yosh on it and spend the money I saved elsewhere.
Look at it this way - unless you are a racer a set of Gilles rear sets give you much better bang for the buck on a daily basis.
But then again it depends on what you really want to accomplish. The 12 is a pretty good bike box stock so anything you do to make it lighter is money well spent - to a point.
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"BTW....You need to get a girlfriend who's last name isn't .jpg"
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00a1zx12r
Novice Class
Posts: 93
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posted August 19, 2013 08:59 PM
I agree with u very much. When my 12 is all hooked up with the 17 tooth sprocket, new muzzy clutch kit w billet basket, and the Yoshi RS3 slip on, it will be pretty snappy.
One thing awesome about a full exhaust is u loose almost 20lbs. And gain between 10 - 20 hp at the same time. It's the best mod to do for the results u get for the price.
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted August 19, 2013 09:45 PM
There are secondhand Akras from time to time on Ebay - worth checking... And one thing I've found really improve the ride is new rear shock! I installed Wilbers fully adjustable with height adjuster and hydraulic precomp adjuster and it's the best mod I've done to my bike. Also changing the front springs to a little bit stonger made the bike much more stabile while riding twisties.
As you're more on to the curves than straight line I'd spend my money to the suspension and the pipe to save the weight. Also Li-Ion battery saves you 3kg (6lbs) with 150$ so thats the cheapeast weight saving you can have - other than lose it from yourself
Here is couple of pictures when I installed my Akra and Wilbers: http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?TID=72078&FID=1
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted August 20, 2013 10:27 AM
 Edited By: Gunner on 20 Aug 2013 22:27
quote:
Well, personally I think the Akrapovic is the finest pipe on the market. My opinion.
I would not own a Muzzy pipe. The low to mid range driveability issues and propensity to burn lowers up are well known. I guess if all I did was a 1/4 mile at a time maybe, but I don't so it's a non-decision.
I think if I were you and knowing what's available on the market anymore for these bikes I'd throw a nice Yosh on it and spend the money I saved elsewhere.
Look at it this way - unless you are a racer a set of Gilles rear sets give you much better bang for the buck on a daily basis.
But then again it depends on what you really want to accomplish. The 12 is a pretty good bike box stock so anything you do to make it lighter is money well spent - to a point.
You are entitled to your opinion Bob just as anyone is entitled to their opinion.. But as far as I can tell I'm the ONLY person here that has owned both the Aka and the Arata pipes at the same time both on A model 12R's ... It's from that knowledge that I say the Aka isn't quite up to the Arata. That's coming from someone that has owned both. You or anyone else would be speculating to compare the Arata to the Aka unless you or anyone else commenting can say they have owned both pipes at the same time as the picture I posted in this thread shows I have done. I sold the red bike when I purchased my 10R and if the Aka was the better pipe it would have stayed here and the Arata would have left with the red 12R wearing it. I kept everything of value off that bike before I sold it as a matter O fact I kept the Aka and replaced it with my Stock exhaust from my silver bike and sold the Aka later on..
I'm not saying the Aka is junk as I would never say that but I am saying it's not up to the Arata standards on the 12R.. Now I had an Aka pipe on my 10R and it was a nice pipe... The difference between the two HP wise will be small and not worth worrying about. But until you have held both pipes in your hands and looked them over close on the bench then went to the Dyno with them both and swapped both out on the same day while the bike sits on the dyno strapped down like I done comparing them any opinions about the two is pure speculation not hard data. On a scale of 1 to 10 the Arata would sit at 10 and the Aka would be a 9 simply because I haven't tested any others to compare to the two I listed..
Either pipe he picks will be fine as long as he stays clear of the Muzzy Junk. I wouldn't pay 2K for any pipe either so I don't blame him for holding off... I would put this in Ship's lap and let him find what you want and make you a price far better than retail.
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted August 20, 2013 12:12 PM
You are correct - I have never owned an Arata so my opinion is based solely on a pipe I've owned two of and love. Nothing more, nothing less.
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"BTW....You need to get a girlfriend who's last name isn't .jpg"
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted August 20, 2013 02:25 PM
Truthfully I don's really care which pipe he chooses since neither company is paying me to direct customers their way. Keep this in mind the Arata pipes are only offered in Titanium while Aka can be had in Ti or SS. If you were to buy the Aka in their Ti version ( Evolution Series ) it would be right there in cost with the Arata. I think Arata made a marketing error by not offering a SS pipe since most people won't notice that slight weight sayings to justify paying the extra price for the Titanium.
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted August 20, 2013 05:31 PM
I wonder what this means on the Akrapovic website under zx-12R?
No products were matched by your search critera.
There are no active products for this category. ---> Archived products are available. <----
Is that Euro-speak for we have NOS for the 12 in a warehouse in Serbia?
Hmmmm. I wonder.
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"BTW....You need to get a girlfriend who's last name isn't .jpg"
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted August 20, 2013 10:12 PM
In Germany you can have brand new Akrapovic pipes for ZX12. So they do produce them. Probably just not importing to US. http://shop.akrapovic.de/shop/KAWASAKI,ZX_12_R,2000,a,a.htm
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00a1zx12r
Novice Class
Posts: 93
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posted August 21, 2013 03:00 PM
Just ordered the muzzy clutch kit, falican billet basket, muzzy fan and17tooth front sprocket. Hopefully this will fix up the clutch issues and I hope that 17tooth sprocket wakes up the low end a bit!
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted August 21, 2013 03:14 PM
I still have the plastic fan on my 12R and never had any problems with it melting like Muzzy likes to scare people will happen.. I do have a manual switch wired into my circuit that I use anytime I hit heavy traffic that way the temp is never allowed to get out of control before the fan kicks on.
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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00a1zx12r
Novice Class
Posts: 93
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posted August 21, 2013 05:56 PM
Well, i live in Florida where it is seriously muggy hot and sweaty 6 months out of the year. Lately when I sit at stop lights, the engine has gotten really hot. So I figured it wouldn't hurt. My buddy that died who had a 12 suggested that I get one if I planned to ride in summer in Florida. It was only $39. If it helps then cool. If not, then no real big loss.
I'm also having the engine and coolant system flushed while its in the shop. Hopefully everything will
Help.
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