RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted May 02, 2003 09:25 AM
New dyno charts posted
http://www.dontbescaredracing.com/dyno
Check out the new results are interesting! Top three new charts are marked new. Check our "News" section for info.
  
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Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted May 02, 2003 11:54 AM
Interesting, Does anyone have a 1361 Dyno run to post ?
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We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted May 02, 2003 12:39 PM
Very Diplomatic Berg man! I will say this one more time. That Silver Bike must have been a Magazine testers bike because I have not seen any zx with more stock HP!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted May 03, 2003 12:14 AM
I swear I'm not trying to stir up anything here, but I got a couple of questions:
On the third set of runs...
1. Isn't that kinda low numbers for a 1270?
2, Why do the BNC/Bear bike have the biggest dips in both curves around 7K?
3. Even though it comes up a few ponies short after about 10.5K, isn't the stock bike's lines a lot smoother then the BNC/Bear bike?
4. Doesn't the BNC bike also have a PCIIIR?
I'm just wondering why the two bikes (1270 & BNC/Bear) are not higher or smoother.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted May 03, 2003 04:58 AM
I think the B'M"C / Bear bike is mine (I think)! and I have yet to "Tune" the dips out! I made the ridability more important than the chart curves. In the area you are talking about I may have added as much as 45% more fuel to clean up the On - Off - On problems. and yes I have a PC3R. That Silver Bike makes serious HP stock. Mine only made 152.6 stock! The Bike with the 1270 has an Older Muzzy Pipe?
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted May 03, 2003 09:21 AM
HMMMmmm...
I don't like any of those fuel graphs that are posted...NOT very straight at all...
I also don't understand why those runs were done in 6th gear???
I ALSO don't like hitting the throttle at such low revs (some were under 2k)
Wish I could post our stock-cams, K&N filters, stock stacks, 1361 graphs hopefuly after this weekend???)...
Hope things get better for you Bergie...
I WILL send you the CDs...THIS MONDAY!!!
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted May 03, 2003 01:51 PM
The comparison charts all the runs were in 4th. I never ran any bike in 6th except my green bike because it wouldn't hook up, so I'm not sure why you said 6th?
The BMC/Bear/Hindle bike is Vince Hills on the same dyno. His bike has advance, hindle, stacks, PC3R, tuning and bmc filters.
The red 1270cc bike w/Muzzy pipe does seem low, but I assure you that was it's best graph. Different bike on the same dyno. The bike belongs to my friend Rich, who also runs at maxton. I think something is wrong with it, it should make a crapload more power but it doesn't and it was tuned, it also has advance, screens/no filters and PC3R!
The silver bike is mine, 100% bone stock except for a hindle pipe! If the A/F ratios are screwy that is because THERE IS NO PC3R ON IT the bike has never even been tuned, just bolted on a pipe and dyno'd it.
Hope that answers any questions.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted May 03, 2003 03:13 PM
 Edited By: VincentHill on 3 May 2003 16:24
Kevin, I have not seen many ZX12 that have the Torque and HP Dip!
http://www.muzzys.com/dynocharts/ZX-12Dyno_4_15_02.jpg
Notice the Dips!
http://www.zx-12r.org/Motorcycle_info/Information%20Pages/The Blais Cycle 12 nears completion_______Dyno Sheet_ - L_A_ Busa's_files/View.jpg (You must cut and paste this one!)
Notice the Dips!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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kangpow
Expert Class
Posts: 144
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posted May 03, 2003 06:15 PM
VincentHill, you said you added as much as 45% more fuel to clean up the on - off - on problems. Is that popping you where getting?
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted May 03, 2003 10:47 PM
Actually I have seen some dips on some of the bikes I've run in that same 5600 range...but it is seldom in the "max-torq" range like the one on that stock baseline run (I need to go look at the runs I made on the one and only totaly stock bike that I have run)...it can usually be reduced with mapping though...
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mach111
Novice Class
Posts: 81
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posted May 03, 2003 11:52 PM
i tried more fuel also at 0,2,5 t.p
at 0 t.p at 2.5rpm& up,
at 2t.p 4.5rpm & up,
at 5t.p 7.5rpm& up
i experimented about 40 maps with various columns in this range with as much as 45 fuel at 5.5rpm.
the bike seemed to accel a little better but it was surging a tad ,and it popped real bad on decel when it was too rich.
i finally found my richer numbers than the base 0 in these spots and the bike is perfect with a custom map in the rest of the columns.
but i have one of those akra's now that has a cant go anyhigher deadpoint top h.p # of 172 up top  ...........
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted May 04, 2003 01:23 AM
Edited By: redelk on 7 May 2003 09:33
This was at the first DG event. Muzzy CF oval, PCIII (w/ "standard" Muzzy map), Y2K timing mod, Motorhead filters. 15K on the odo.
Needless to say, with an A/F ratio like this, there's room for improvement. We'll see in a couple of weeks what another 27K miles and a remap will do.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted May 04, 2003 05:44 AM
Kangpow, No I did not have "Popping" issues, it is (I guess) a reversion problem around 5500 rpms. My guess is that the serious cam timing makes the fuel want to go out of the cylinders instead of staying in them. To cure this, you must add a lot more fuel to off-set this loss and the engine is not using very much of it!. It took a lot of time to make the bike get past the stumble and a custom map will not cure it because it is reading F/A mixture which works above and below this problem but not during the problem.
On my bike, at part throttle positions, the bike would turn off and decelerate until I gave it more or less throttle! It needed a Hell of a lot more fuel to stop this problem!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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mach111
Novice Class
Posts: 81
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posted May 05, 2003 10:09 PM
sounds like a hindle problem,shoulda kept the akra on :
just kidding vince.
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Zhooligan
Moderator
Post Whore Extraordinaire!
Posts: 3829
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posted May 05, 2003 10:16 PM
I can see right now that my TiForce is a problem. The bike idles, make great HP and torque, it pulls from top to bottom, you can chug around town in to tall of a gear and it doesn't care. Oh yeah it sounds nice but is quieter then a Muzzy, Akro or Hindle. 
____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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Koz
Expert Class
Posts: 304
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posted May 06, 2003 07:35 AM
I'm kinda confused, Three different bikes set-up differently. What is this comparison supposed to be showing. All the hp numbers shown are about average with all the top pipes, except the 1270 (Should have a little more). I got the same hp (171) with just the Muzzy Ti/oval, no PC3, am I missing something?
Koz
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted May 06, 2003 06:42 PM
Z...if that Ti Force is quieter than the Akra....man...your bike must sound like an electric motor.
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Zhooligan
Moderator
Post Whore Extraordinaire!
Posts: 3829
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posted May 06, 2003 07:06 PM
I'm an environmentalist!
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To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted May 07, 2003 04:23 AM
OH...so thats why your bike is green.....hehe.
Damn TreeHuggers.
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Official Charter Member of the RIDERS OF KAWASAKI MEMBERSHIP REVOCATION CLUB
Also a BadAss Internet Forum Moderator 4 Hire!! Come at me brah!
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted May 07, 2003 08:31 AM
TB, toy have heard how quiet my bike is. It was 2 db's quieter than the Akra
What do the different maps ahow, They show that Bergies silver Bike is one serious Stock bike! it makes within 3 Hp of my bike (Bear Stacks is mostlikely the Biggest difference in peak HP) and Makes about the same HP and the 1270 Kit with the Muzzy Pipe. If you think 171 HP is the "SAME", Then why put a pipe on your bike if it made 162 HP because that is the "Same" too, is it not?? Here we are struggling over 2 or 3 HP and none of us knew that it made "No" difference  Just think of the money we all could have saved.
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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Koz
Expert Class
Posts: 304
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posted May 07, 2003 09:05 AM
Are you saying a stock 12, nothing touched at all, made 171hp? 181hp with a 1270 and pipe is NOT normal (it's low). I'm trying to understand what is being compared.
Koz
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted May 07, 2003 09:07 AM
John's bike made 184HP on Nutec last time I mapped it STILL Stock Motor!!!
Must be ready to blow  NOT!
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Koz
Expert Class
Posts: 304
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posted May 08, 2003 03:51 AM
Vincent, you're pretty good at pointing out how some people miss what was said. You see Vincent, even you can miss something. You missed this, "The silver bike is mine, 100% bone stock except for a hindle pipe!" As soon as you seen Hindle and Muzzys in the same tread you jumped in to somehow tell us about the Great step hindle. That it is so much better then every other pipe. Don't get me wrong, the Hindle does make good power, but superior to all the other top pipes, I don't think so! Personally, I think there is more to a great pipe then how much power it makes. For one, the quality is very important. IMHO the Hindles that I've seen, looked like junk, and poor fitting junk at that. Just my personal option!
Koz
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted May 08, 2003 05:21 AM
KOZ, I just noted that the 1270 (which shoulf have spanked us all was the only bike with the Muzzys! Both Bikes with the Hindle made more. The only real advantage my bike had over the stock bike (Peak) Hp was the Bear Stacks. How did I miss the fact that the SIlver Bike is 100% stock? Please tell me where did I say it was not? BTW, my bike has a 100% stock engine, I have added the BMC Race FIlters (The silver's were removed) The Pc3r adds drivability and the real advantage was simply the stacks!
NOW With that said, "Everyone" that saw my original post on Labusas saw that I said "Compared to the Akra, the Hindle has very Industrial welds and I had real problems getting the "S" Pipe to fit"! Still, You look for the best looking woman you can find to have great sex because you know the Ugly one will have the best! I just could not turn down 10 more HP for Looks and status!
BTW, For 50% more money, I could have a Tig Welded pipe that look about as good as the Akra, but for 50% less, I could not get an Akra that made 10 more HP!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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Koz
Expert Class
Posts: 304
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posted May 08, 2003 06:30 AM
Vincent, Through the years I've decided/learned the hard way, that I would look for a women by the type of person she are, sometimes you'll get lucky and also get a women that is good looking. This also goes for, staying away from treads for certain products, and political/religious issues, too. Products like motor oil, tires, pipes, etc., because pretty much they are all very close in performance, and only end up in a pissing match. Everybody has a tendency to defend the product that they have laid out money for, which is natural. It's all-good!
Koz
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