posted April 19, 2003 03:08 PM
Edited By: entropy on 19 Apr 2003 16:11
help, doesn't seem to be charging.... Well, I have extinguished all my apparent options, even went into the manual
I have a big block stroker, and thought I needed a bigger battery so I but a big battery in front of the r wheel, removed the battery in the OEM batt box.
Ran the cables frpm the remote box into the battery box and hooked em up to the cables which used to attach to the stock battery.
Bike started up GREAT, ran great, but after a 10 min cruise, it wouldn't start, slow grind. SHIT, just when I was feeling so smart.
Got home and started checking stuff.
1. pulled the oil catcher connector, and checked alternator output, all just over 100VAC at 4000rpm; check.
2.put the Fluke on the rectifier connectors, one polarity no continuity, the other some; ... check
3. thoroughly cleaned out the oil in the connector, w/brake cleaning fluid & dried.
4. pulled the battery tray, checked the 30A Main fuse; check.
5. Gave battery takes a good charge (a NEW Odessy 680); check
Took it out for a 10 min spin, and when I got back...
It SEEMS like it is discharging pretty fast when running, but does not discharge just sitting.
PLEASE!!! does anyone have an idea what is going on????
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posted April 19, 2003 04:50 PM
Checking the actual bat. voltage while running will tell you if it's charging/discharging or not...
Bungie cord your Fluke to your tank cover and watch it while you ride...(whoa-WHOA!!! keep it on the road there buddy! )...
I'd also check the volts WHILE CRANKING IT...
Might be time for a EFIR to retard the timming just to start it???but I don't know (yet) if they can be used for that???
I also don't know if anyone is building EXTRA HEAVY DUTY starters for these pupies yet?
I haven't been "lucky enough" to have to deal with "self starting" any of these larger motors yet...
We ARE in the proccess of building a pretty well pumped up motor for Ryan's Bbusa though...It won't surprise me a bit if he/we run into "the usual" starting problems with it...
We have 4 other motors to build before we do his Bbusa though...
2-HonDogs, 1-SlowZuki and 1-GREEEN ZX12!!!
posted April 19, 2003 05:53 PM
Edited By: entropy on 19 Apr 2003 18:54
KC,
thx much for the response!
I buttoned everything up, fully charged the battery, and put the Fluke on the battery while revving it a bit in the garage. 13.8 V accross the battery terminals.
Well, I figured that i must have seated a fuse or connector, so off I went for a 15 min ride, lights nice & bright, temp got up to 9 o'clock, all fine.
Got back to the garage shut it down and found 13+V accross the battery and I got all happy. Apparently it is NOT discharging while running afterall.
Then I started it once. Shut it down, and tried starting again, and it would barely turn over at 0 throttle, not start. At WOT, it would spin like a mutha, but not start.
Its got Lee's cams set at 105/102, and I thing that the timing is all 0's at 0 throttle...
This is starting to get to me!
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posted April 19, 2003 06:36 PM
Bad ground,undersized cables for new length,windings might be going in starter.I thought fi motors were not suppose to ignite with the throttle open?Will it start if you wait an hour?
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posted April 20, 2003 01:24 AM
aliveagain:
I put HEAVY cables in for the 2' extension. Just as you say, it won't start with the throttle open, but it spins fast, so would that mean the starter motor is fine?
If I wait about 20 min, it'll fire up fine, assuming I don't kill the battery trying to start it while the bike is still hot.
Today, I'm going to try taking some timing out at 0 throttle.
BTW, where is Beacon Falls Ct? I grew up in central Mass and never heard of that town???
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Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
posted April 20, 2003 03:15 AM
But I *have* seen Zhooligan tear his hair out trying to get his 1361 to start under IDENTICAL circumstances. I'll see if I can find the thread relating to the 'big wire' PC3Rs.
I'm going to do the PC-out experiment right now; if there is no difference, i'll experiment with fuel and ignition at 0 throttle.
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posted April 20, 2003 07:42 AM
Edited By: entropy on 20 Apr 2003 08:43
OK, back from my Easter morning experiments
The map i was running had ign -1's in the 0,2% throttle x 500, 1000, 1500, 2000rpm "square" of cells; i replaced the -1's with all with -5's.
DEFINITELY makes it MUCH easier to start when the temp guage is 8:30-9:30 o'clock, and gives it a better chance at 10:00 o'clock. SOLID improvement, but no magic bullet for temps higher than 9:30
so, I pulled the PC3r out and tried starting at 9:30+/- o'clock temp. NO FUKKEN WAY; it would barely even turn over. Looks like the PC3r with -5's is doing its job.
Sooooo, my conclusion is, for MY bike, set up in MY haphazard way, the -5's really help alleviate the hard starting that occurs when the bike is well warmed up. Apparently ZHoolie had a similar experience?
Will it work on others??? Good damn question
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posted April 20, 2003 08:58 AM
Man Entropy, with that big battery?? it should spin the crap out of that big motor?? but you did say your compression was around 220, I will have to check mine here next week...
MM
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quote:Man Entropy, with that big battery?? it should spin the crap out of that big motor?? but you did say your compression was around 220, I will have to check mine here next week...
MM
Mike,
That 680 Battery does spin the crap outa the motor, EXCEPT when it is pretty hot as i described above.
the notes that the builder took when he did the compression test: "255-260psi all cylinders"
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posted April 20, 2003 11:01 AM
Entrophy...just hire a "pit crew" to follow you around. Arm them with Freon and plenty of water to keep the motor cool between rounds...lol
posted April 20, 2003 01:44 PM
TB,
you right, i need a pitcrew, but more to pick up my broken parts ____________
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posted April 20, 2003 05:03 PM
Coool...
Heck...if -5 helps??? TRY -10!!! (or something more than 5 anyway)...
I think he should just go ahead and put "the big nut" on the end of the crank and buy a car starter from schnitz!!!
Ya that's it...trailer hitch...pull the waggon behind the bike...ya that's the ticket...
WOULD be kinda embarasing when you have to jump off to restart it at a red-light because you stalled it though...LOL...
No charging system either...can't ride it very long with lights
posted April 20, 2003 05:17 PM
You could take a hint from the car guys. Hot motors that don't start so good are common. Hook a kill switch to just the ignition, use the starter to get the engine spinning, then turn on the ignition. Try not to burn up any electronics doing this.
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If you build something Idiot Proof, The world will build a better Idiot.
posted April 20, 2003 05:36 PM
Good point Wildman...
Will probably result in the FI light coming on though...
I have been telling DragRacers for years (that don't already know) NOT to flip the ignition switch until AFTER the motor is spinning (car starter bikes)...
I've seen the end of cranks (starter end) come OUT of the motor because the weld on the crank was cracked or brocken from haveing the ignition on before the motor is turned over...
posted April 20, 2003 06:08 PM
Dont we already have a kill switch on our ignition??? isnt that the little red switch on our right bar??? I know that would be the Nitrous button for some.. LOL...... not me. though.. I would never think of something like that...
Mad Mike
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posted April 20, 2003 07:55 PM
I thought about it some more. I'm pretty sure it would be easy to hook up a direct switch to the starter motor. Then turn the whole ignition on while it's spinning. You might have to hit the starter one more time to get the headlight to come on after it was running. You could probably work around that too if you wanted to mess with it.
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posted April 21, 2003 12:37 AM
KC: good idea on trying even more than -5! That didn't even occur to me... Can you hurt the motor with too much retard??
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posted April 19, 2003 03:08 PM
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