tn1361
Novice Class
Posts: 43
|
posted April 15, 2003 12:05 PM
Muzzy Cams
I just called Muzzy's today to inquire about their cams for the 1361 kit. The guy who answered the phone stressed that they were not for street use but he could not tell me why. He also could not tell me any techinal information. Has anyone on here ever put them in their bike ot know any technical information about them ? Specifically how much bottom end do you lose and how much top end do you gain ? Are they worth the money ? Any other info would be appreciated. I would just like to know what you get for the money. Thanks
  
|
zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
|
posted April 15, 2003 12:42 PM
Who did u talk to Kurt??
|
zrxdean
Needs a job
Posts: 2225
|
posted April 15, 2003 01:39 PM
Just a couple days ago Doug Meyer answered a very similar question;
http://www.zx12rzone.com/board/viewthread.php?FID=1&TID=7038
You might want to do a search on 'Muzzy cams' or 'aftermarket cams' or some such and see what people have been hashing over for the past few years.
|
dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
|
posted April 15, 2003 02:46 PM
tn1361,
Here is the essence of what I said a few days ago:
Cams don't "put out" horsepower. They only allow you to build the combination you want. It is the total combination of the engine that creates the power. Without testing a given combination with and without a given cam profile, it is impossible to honestly answer that question, so we don't bullshit you.
These cams are for race engines only, 1270 minimum, with increased air needs and higher compression.
You would certainly suffer a power loss with these cams in a stock engine.
Inlet lift is 10.2mm, Exh lift is 9.9mm, recommended centerlines are 105/107. They are regrinds and a companion valve spring kit is mandatory
No one can guarantee any kind of specific power gain (or loss) on YOUR engine.
We can show you (and do when we can) what happens on OUR engine and tell you what you can generally expect. To do otherwise is marketing BS.
Doug
|
MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
|
posted April 16, 2003 04:28 AM
you da man doug! sorry to hear about the transmission! good luck with the rest of the season....
Mad Mike
____________
200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
|
Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
|
posted April 16, 2003 12:12 PM
quote:
tn1361,
Here is the essence of what I said a few days ago:
Cams don't "put out" horsepower. They only allow you to build the combination you want. It is the total combination of the engine that creates the power. Without testing a given combination with and without a given cam profile, it is impossible to honestly answer that question, so we don't bullshit you.
These cams are for race engines only, 1270 minimum, with increased air needs and higher compression.
You would certainly suffer a power loss with these cams in a stock engine.
Inlet lift is 10.2mm, Exh lift is 9.9mm, recommended centerlines are 105/107. They are regrinds and a companion valve spring kit is mandatory
No one can guarantee any kind of specific power gain (or loss) on YOUR engine.
We can show you (and do when we can) what happens on OUR engine and tell you what you can generally expect. To do otherwise is marketing BS.
Doug
Muzzy could at least give before and after numbers with and w/o cams. I believe they could do the same with their different stack upgrades. This would go along way towards clearing up alot of the confusion over both products.
____________
We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
|
zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
|
posted April 16, 2003 01:14 PM
I think part of the reason they dont is because someone will get like 2 horsepower less than Muzzy did and then bitch about it. Hell they never ever used to post dyno charts until they posted the 2002 12R chart.
|
entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
|
posted April 17, 2003 01:12 AM
 Edited By: entropy on 17 Apr 2003 02:17
A couple years ago I asked the same question to Doug M: how much hp would a set of "hi-performance cams give? cost-benefit, eh? Simple, eh?
Seemed like a reasonable question, but after "playing" with my bike as a 1361, 1375, 1427, Lee's cams, Nutec, stacks, Akro, BDE Hindle, plenty o' dyno time, I learned the hard way. It ain't simple, no pat answer.
Then to add the final complexity, a hp gain you see on the dyno will not necessarily give more mph in 1/4 mi (true measure of hp)
There are just too damn many variables for Muzzy (or Lee for that matter) to state specific hp improvements for a set of aftermarket cams: comp ratio, total cc's, AF mixture, ignition timing, cam settings, fuel, air quality... Throw in different exh system, stacks, throttle bodies, porting, and there are sooooooo many factors that there is no way to exactly predict the result.
And what exactly is a hp "improvement" anyway? The cams will change the shape of the hp curve, so how to describe that with a single number?
On my latest expedition into the motor we changed the cam timing (again), this time to 105/102. Back to the dyno in a couple weeks...
My advice (for what is worth), on a 12 don't bother with a cam change until you are WAY into a series of motor improvements. Busa is much different story...
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
|
dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
|
posted April 17, 2003 06:51 AM
Entropy,
Thanks for that. Couldn't have said it better myself. Not until you get into trying things can you appreciate how all these components need to come together
to acheive a positive change. You have to experience this challenge to appreciate it.
Xlnt, you are exactly right. If we make a specific "claim" we need to be able to back it up and there are very few instances where that is possible. Cams may be one of the MOST variable.
Doug
|
Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
|
posted April 17, 2003 11:47 AM
quote:
Entropy,
Thanks for that. Couldn't have said it better myself. Not until you get into trying things can you appreciate how all these components need to come together
to acheive a positive change. You have to experience this challenge to appreciate it.
Xlnt, you are exactly right. If we make a specific "claim" we need to be able to back it up and there are very few instances where that is possible. Cams may be one of the MOST variable.
Doug
Speaking strickly for myself, I would appreciate knowing what's in the realm of possibilty. For example, if Muzzy posted the dyno sheets for the various combinations they have tested, it would help me make an intelligent choice wrt which stacks, cams, and stroker combinations to go with. Muzzy's 1361 stroker add claims 210hp & 120 ft/lbs torque. Even though I only know two bikes that have come close to that, the 1361 add helped me decide to choose the 1361 over the 1270. If I don't get 210 hp, I'll at least believe that mark is in the realm of possibility, and will start looking for another way to get there. 
____________
We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
|
kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
|
posted April 18, 2003 04:13 PM
I got 210 and 118+ (at 500 miles) out of the one that I built...I didn't try to "squeeze it" either...starts easy...jump on it and ride all danged day if you want to
I agree with zxlnt...IF they posted HP#s...they would end up spending WAY TOO MUCH TIME on the phone with people crying about not getting the same results...
|
jonwright
Needs a job
Posts: 2416
|
posted April 19, 2003 06:05 AM
Not to mention the stooopid lawsuits for 'false advertising'.
I mean, if we have assholes suing McBarfin's for making them FAT, what do you think these arse lickers would do if they go ahold of 12R cams?
If I were Rob I'd do the same thing.
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC