zxlnt
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posted April 09, 2003 03:23 PM
Cam Timing
Ok I did do a search and couldn't come up with anything remotely close to what I was looking for. Need lobe centers for 1270 with bear stacks. I am thinking 105/100 does that sound about right. Adjusting valves and degreeing cams tonight.
  
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Zhooligan
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posted April 09, 2003 03:40 PM
 Edited By: Zhooligan on 9 Apr 2003 16:45
psycho and swft remeber the numbers I'm sure.
Picked this up off of a search:
Muzzy Spec....105.5 in / 99.9 ex. was as close as we could get.
Muzzy claims new spec for 1270 is 105 in. / 103 ex.!!!
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ra12r
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posted April 09, 2003 07:42 PM
Yawnnnnnn,,,,,,,,,,,,,104/102 is stock!!! 1 degree out of 360,,,,,,,that is as good as no change at all!!!!!!!
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Zhooligan
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posted April 09, 2003 08:13 PM
well then enlighten us with your apparent wisdom.
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zxlnt
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posted April 09, 2003 08:56 PM
Thanks for the info Z. Ya know it sucks when u take on a project and then don't have everything you need, like a 40 shim!!!!!!!!! Gess its to the stealership 2morrow 2 find one.
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Zhooligan
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posted April 09, 2003 09:40 PM
Seems like thats always the case!
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kcadby
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posted April 10, 2003 10:24 AM
I was gonna say something (to ra12) but I would rather keep this a pos. thread...rolleyes...
105/101 is another # that works...
Without dyno testing you will really never know what is best for YOUR motor/combonation...
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RAC4IT
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Bergie
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posted April 10, 2003 10:46 AM
how much time are you looking at to test it on the dyno, tear into it and make the changes and have it buttoned up for another test run?
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VincentHill
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posted April 10, 2003 11:07 AM
If "1" degree makes no difference, then 2, 3 4 When would it make a difference? Acutally the slightest change make a difference, that is why we have thse numbers!
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kcadby
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posted April 10, 2003 11:28 AM
I haven't "had a bike to do it with" but...like anything...with practice...I don't think it would take very long...
THIS does NOT included re-installing the degree wheel!!!
I would index the gears/cams so I could just move the cams by marks...then check the degree #s after making the most power...and...or...having the best PowerBand 
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Y2KZX12R
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posted April 10, 2003 01:37 PM
I guess its relevent to "what a difference" is, right?
If 2 hp isnt "a difference" then no it doesnt make a rats ass.
Its easy to find the first 15 hp in a production engine. But the hard part is fine tuning for that last 5 hp.
I tried several cam timings on the dyno and found I could move the powerband around a bit. While never loosing more than 3 hp up top.
I'll see if i have some graphs handy.
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ra12r
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posted April 10, 2003 04:16 PM
Thank you Y2K for once again commenting with your mind and not an empty ego like some, on here do,...comments without thinking TOO MUCH(KCadby),,,,exhale!!!
Moving the powerband is not gaining horsepower. Changing the dynamics of the engine response, or the placement of peek power band is obviously the result. 2-5 horsepower gain on a dyno is a normal variant in any bell curve of a zx12 dyno. (That is a statistical term Zhooligan) So, that does not demonstrate a greater air pump capabilities. Since the cam's are a fixed grind, the maximal horsepower for that particular grind is not hard to find. The optimal degree settings for maximal flow is another issue. Changing the degree settings can increase your mph without increasing hp. This is where i get bored and YAWNNNNNN...........
Many are mechanics, but few are engin'EERS'!!!!!
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Zhooligan
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posted April 10, 2003 05:48 PM
Edited By: Zhooligan on 10 Apr 2003 21:56
So what is your degree in ra12? I asked to be enlightened after your slam comment.
And for your information motorcycles and cars are designed by engineers and then they are refined by people that are not engineers and or may or may not have even graduated from highschool.
If it were left up to engineers we would be driving volvo or some other boring car.
Your arrogance continues to amaze me. You have responded twice in this thread without any information other then essentially inferring that we are stupid. I am an educated idiot with six degrees, two of them in Engineering. That said the best people I know in the automotive and motorcycle industry don't have formal degrees but their knowledge, experience and skills exceed any PHD I have ever seen.
So once again, a question has been asked, do you have a usuable answer? Or Do we need to discuss bell curves. Or do we need to go to a ASME or SAME meeting?
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psycho1122
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posted April 10, 2003 05:52 PM
Degreed Cams on my 12 Did "Spread The Powerband" But did not create significant Gains up top. As they say at Muzzy's...."Power Under Peak" was improved.
105 in / 103 ex is the new "#'s" that Muzzy recomends for the 1270.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted April 10, 2003 06:24 PM
Well, I cant find the bit maps of the dynojet run viewer files... 
Anyway, on a 2000 with factory cams and displacement, I ran 105,100 and didnt like it. It made a few more hp up top but suffered below 8500.
I liked 102.5/101 because of the low end boost and it still made 176 hp.
But 103/101 with12.8 static compression factory pistons worked well.
This winter I wanted to try 102/103 and sink the valves and mill the head for 13.4 static. But the chevelle takes priority.
I fired up that zz-502 this past weekend!! Sounds good! Its got a DR Gas 3.5"x3" X pipe and ultraflow mufflers. Nasty sounding in deed.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted April 10, 2003 06:29 PM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 10 Apr 2003 19:31
Here it is.
Red is 103/101 and blue is 105/100
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Zhooligan
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posted April 10, 2003 06:39 PM
Edited By: Zhooligan on 10 Apr 2003 19:41
Red looks pretty good! I like the extra power in the 6500 to 7000 zone for wheelies! Thanks for the good info.
By the way, don't go slipping in a dyno sheet from that 502!!!
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jonwright
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posted April 10, 2003 09:45 PM
Like you need to tune a 12R for wheelies!
Do the mods the Elk has done to his bike and it's like a modified Gixxer.
Fook dat. I like my power on da groun whar I kin use it.
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zxlnt
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posted April 10, 2003 10:28 PM
Well after another run to the dealer to get the correct shim the cams are degreed in at 105/103. I must say its a fucking bitch to get the dial indicator set up so that it works correctly. Anyway motor in frame and most of the ancillary stuff is hooked up. I think only that is left is exhaust and radiator and body work now. Wont be working on tomorrow but it will be alive again on Saturday. I have even't ridden since Oct 6 last year...
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Zhooligan
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posted April 11, 2003 11:33 AM
You can feel the anticipation in the air! Hopefully your weather is good and you can start enjoying your ride again.
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Megabyte
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posted April 11, 2003 12:04 PM
quote:
You can feel the anticipation in the air! Hopefully your weather is good and you can start enjoying your ride again.
Me too ?
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Zhooligan
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posted April 11, 2003 01:50 PM
Megabyte... I spoke to MVR yesterday and he expects your bike to be ready next week. He has the head left to assemble, and then put the engine in the frame.
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Megabyte
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posted April 11, 2003 01:59 PM
quote:
Megabyte... I spoke to MVR yesterday and he expects your bike to be ready next week. He has the head left to assemble, and then put the engine in the frame.
Thanks for the update ZH, This feels like waiting for Christmas
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kcadby
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posted April 11, 2003 04:12 PM
Ya...it SUCKS getting a dial guage set up on the 12s...
I STILL don't have the right thing/tool to make it "easy"
I just finished a GSXR-750 Mini Sprint motor (STRO-ker  )...it was SO much easier than the 12s are...SHOOOooo...
Glad you got it done xzlnt
No comment ra12...
Well OK...just one...
I've been wrong about a few things I've posted on (and admit it when I find out)...and I have no doubt that I'll never be as perfect as you think you are (don't want to be either) but...I only come here to try to help people (and learn also  )...
I DON'T come here to insult anyone...
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zxlnt
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posted April 12, 2003 08:24 PM
Well I got the bike up and running today. It was a bitch I hate working on my own stuff. I would rather work on someone elses bike. Anyway 1st thing battery was just about dead so u can imagine the deal on trying to jump start it. Yes it was a bitch. Ok so got that taken and still no fire. It would crank like hell but not fire. Ok make 100 percent certain that your ground from your EMS is grounded very well or it wont run. 3 make sure you have plenty of gas. So after all the bullshit stuff was taken care she fired right up proceded to get into a nice idle. "Hey where is this antifreeze coming from?" I'll be damned its leaking from the water neck on the back of the cylinder head. Like down under the fuel injection next to the frame. Gess what, we get to undo a whole bunch of work we just did and pull the exhaust and the radiator and all the wiring and shit just to lower the engine back down to be able to reach the filler neck. A little cleaning, some Yamabond and some loctite and its good to go. Put the exhaust and radiator back on and filled her up with antifreeze again no drips or leaks. It was a long fucking goatrope of a day and I am glad its done. All that is left is some bodywork and good bath for it.
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