Ninjaman12R
Needs a job
as a Deal's Gap tour guide.
Posts: 4767
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posted March 28, 2003 04:19 AM
12R....Will not start...............
Ok guys, I've got a sick 12R in the garage. Not Lil' Red, she's fine. It's an '00 green 12 that belongs to a friend of mine. He just got the bike too. Anyways, when he brought it to me the battery was dead from him trying to get it to start. I charged the battery, and last night I put it back on the bike. It whirls the motor over good, but the bike won't crank. Everything appears to be in order when you attempt to fire the bike. All the gauges function, you can hear the fuel pump etc.
I checked the stator per the manual and it was fine. That is as deep as I got into it. I'm pretty sure that the bike isn't "firing" because as I said you can hear the fuel pump running when you turn the key on and flip the kill switch to run mode. Also you can smell a little fuel after attempting to crank the thing.
Ideas???? What should my next check be???? I've got too many projects going now and I want to get this thing back on the road and outta my garage. I'VE GOT TO GET READY FOR DG5!!!!!!!!!!! Lil' Red needs another rear tire!!!!! ALREADY!!!! 
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
  
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Otis
Needs a job
Captain Kickstand
Posts: 3028
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posted March 28, 2003 04:46 AM
Humm. So it's turning over but not firing and the fuel pump is running? I'd say it has to be electrical Rick. No spark. Why? I don't have a clue. There are some smart minds here though, you'll get options quiclkly.
You could try bump starting it. Have you tried that yet?
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It's a free country brother
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Ninjaman12R
Needs a job
as a Deal's Gap tour guide.
Posts: 4767
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posted March 28, 2003 05:53 AM
Nope
No Otis, haven't tried that. It should crank though, the battery is turning it over really good. I agree it is more than likely an electrical problem, that's why I did the check on the stator. TedG will probably have some input on this. I need to see if there is a place I can make a check and see if any "fire" is making it to the stick coils without actually tearing all that crap of the top of the engine and pulling them out.
____________
What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted March 28, 2003 08:21 AM
 Edited By: redelk on 28 Mar 2003 08:23
If I was a betting man, It could possobly have something to do with the ignition switch. The "anti-thief" device in the switch is not working. You might want to check toe voltage coming from the switch's wires. E-mail me and I'll tell you what I'm talking about.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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Ninjaman12R
Needs a job
as a Deal's Gap tour guide.
Posts: 4767
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posted March 28, 2003 09:00 AM
I'm on it....
Sherm,
You'll be gettin' mail in a few minutes. Thanx......
____________
What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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zx1012r
Expert Class
Posts: 125
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posted March 28, 2003 09:14 AM
STOP! Put a new or known good battery in it! This has fooled me on many a bike. Cranks great but is using all the power the battery has for that and not enough juice to fire the plugs. Start simple!
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zx12richard
Pro
The Green Monster..
Posts: 1133
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posted March 28, 2003 09:25 AM
Edited By: zx12richard on 28 Mar 2003 09:26
Does it have a power commander???? If so take it off... Mine quit running down the highway one day.. Took it off fired it up and rode home..
Had no fire...
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Ninjaman12R
Needs a job
as a Deal's Gap tour guide.
Posts: 4767
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posted March 28, 2003 09:36 AM
zx1012r,
That's a thought and I may do that, but man it really is spinning the motor pretty good. Doesn't appear to be weak in any sense of the word.
zx12richard,
No Power Commander on the bike. It's completely stock with the exception of the ZG Double Bubble.
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted March 28, 2003 10:32 AM
Okay, first of all if it is cranking the engine pretty hard there is enough juice to fire the coils. If you smell gas that means you are getting fuel. How much is TBD. What is happening is the plugs are not firing OR not firing when they should OR the camshaft sensor is bad or disconnected. It won't run without the camshaft sensor.
So in this order do this.
Check the camshaft sensor.
Check the side stand and clutch switches (although I think it won't even crank if they dont work)
Try to see if you have spark, remove a coil, stuff a plug in it and check the spark.
Check the timing plate under the R/H cover and see if it has fallen off or something. I have heard of the pickups failing so that could be it.
If you think you have spark and everything checks out. you probably have fouled plugs. The reason for that is ??? If it has a PCIII on it, remove it. (as was mentioned). if it still won't start, Hold the throttle wide open and crank and see if it pops, if it does it wil probably catch and go. Here is a trick. Pop up the tank and remove the access plates to the TBs then spray some WD 40 down the Throttle bodies with it held wide open. That shit will burn even with the slightest spark. If that doesnt work you wil need to remove the plugs and dry them. get some acetone and put it in a glass cup (no plastic) and throw the plugs in for a few minutes then blow them dry. Before putting them back in, hold the throttle wide open and crank the engine to get the excess fuel out of them. Disconnect the stick coils before doing this. Then reinstal the plugs and do the WD40 trick.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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Ninjaman12R
Needs a job
as a Deal's Gap tour guide.
Posts: 4767
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posted March 28, 2003 12:16 PM
Kewl....
Thanks Ted, I knew you'd have some input on this. Hopefully I can dedicate enough time to the bike this weekend to make all these checks. I really want to get it going for the guy, plus it's been so long since I've ridden a stock 12R that I look forward to the test ride. (that is IF I get the thing going) I will post my findings along the way during the course of the weekend.
Another thing I should note, the engine seems to be really spinning fast, almost too fast. I've seen cars do this after they have "jumped time", you may be on to something with that camshaft sensor. I think I'm gonna check it next.
Thanks for all the input guys, the support a 12 owner gets from this group sometimes amazes me. There is a wealth of knowledge here, good to know. 
____________
What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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zx1012r
Expert Class
Posts: 125
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posted March 28, 2003 01:58 PM
Edited By: zx1012r on 28 Mar 2003 14:01
I could be wrong but it has bitten me before on other bikes. They crank great so I figured the battery must be fine. I even had a charger on the battery figuring that would surely supply enough juice but if you no got enough amps, you no got spark! I tried coils from a known good bike, igniter etc. Finally popped a new battery in and voila! Ready to ride! I am a firm beleiver in the two year rule on batteries. If it's two years old I replace it. I've gotten many more years out of them than that but it always sucked trying to find a Napa or such in the middle of nowhere on a roadtrip while you're friends are thinking ditch him!
Just for the hell of it try pop starting it. With no juice running the starter it may fire up letting you know if the battery is in deed it without pulling it out again.
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted March 28, 2003 02:14 PM
Spinning fast scares me. The first thing I think of is a slipped cam chain and bent valves. Which equals no compression. Maybe I am too pessimistic. I'll keep my fingers crossed it is a flooded engine.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted March 31, 2003 04:28 AM
If camshaft sensor is disconnected it should flash the FI-light, just a note. And also one thing, never happened to inline 4, but in my brothers KTM, if the gas is too old it won't start - so change the fuel.
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Otis
Needs a job
Captain Kickstand
Posts: 3028
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posted March 31, 2003 05:31 AM
quote:
Spinning fast scares me. The first thing I think of is a slipped cam chain and bent valves. Which equals no compression. Maybe I am too pessimistic. I'll keep my fingers crossed it is a flooded engine.
I agree Rick, this sounds scary. Has he ever had it running before?
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It's a free country brother
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Ninjaman12R
Needs a job
as a Deal's Gap tour guide.
Posts: 4767
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posted March 31, 2003 06:28 AM
Update.....
Well this weekend was pretty much a disaster so I just got to spend a few minutes on the bike.
Camshaft Sensor was connected. I unplugged it and checked it with the trusty ol' Fluke. It was within spec so I plugged it back up.
My next check will be the crankshaft sensor. The plug is kinda hard for me to get my fat fucking hands on. But hopefully this afternoon I'll get to it.
I'm with you Otis, the spinning fast does scare me. According to the owner the bike was running before it was put up for the winter. I'm skeptical though. I let Harry hear it over the phone Friday, and he agreed that it sounded like it was spinning too easily. Hmmmmmm....?????
____________
What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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