aliveagain
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posted March 21, 2003 09:18 PM
clutch questions
I just put 17/48 sprockets on and am worried about the clutch.Am I safe using stock basket?I'm not into holeshots but like my 2nd gear roll ons.Is it the basket which goes or the hub?Also,every now and then,the clutch will make a groaning noise when taking off.I have all new plates and fictions and heavier spring,how can I resolve the noise?Now I'm also waiting on a yellow box.I went from my dealer to Spencers to Kansas City and finally to blackrobotics before I was able to get one. I must admit changing sprockets definately scared me the first ride.Can't wait to go for another ride tomorrow,60*s!
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wannabe
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posted March 21, 2003 11:18 PM
Questions for you:
1. What year is your bike?
2. Do you drag race a lot, or do you primarily ride on the street?
3. You said you have new plates & frictions? How many miles did you put on the bike before replacing the last pack?
4. Do you have the stock clutch pack or the 'Muzzy kit' with the 2.0mm steels?
Answering the above questions will help the folks here figure out your problem. And, it's the basket that goes, but the hub goes bad too because the steels eventually dig grooves in it.
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Zhooligan
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posted March 21, 2003 11:34 PM
Generally what kills your clutch is launches where slipping the clutch is a part of the launch and big horsepower / torque applications in the top 2 gears. 2nd gear roll ons won't hurt your clutch nearly as much as a 5th or 5th gear 35 mile per hour roll on will.
It is amazing the number of people that check out a clutch by putting the bike in first or second and hammer the bike or car. If you want to check your clutch throw it in top gear at a low speed and nail the throttle. It will be crystal clear whether the clutch is good or not.
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BA
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posted March 22, 2003 07:37 AM
I didn't see where you've done anything yet to improve your oil flow in the clutch area. It really needs addressed in the 2000-2001 bikes, and while not as much in the later bikes, it's still probably worth it for clutch longevity.
I have some pics of my hub with about 10k miles on it and the steels had made little notches in it over time. It's pretty much junk now. Whacking on the throttle in lower gears does that in the long run I think.
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aliveagain
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posted March 22, 2003 01:29 PM
my bike is a 2000 and pretty much stock. I replaced all the clutch parts with stock pieces as I heard that aftermarket clutches wearout too fast.I probably have 3000 miles on the new set but even the originals occasionally would make the groaning noise.I just did an oil change and switched to spectro syn blend.I'm hoping that may work.BA,are you saying by doing the oil mods on the basket, that will stop my noise?I don't drag race because I'm a chicken shit and don't want to break anything or wipe out on account of I'm just to damn cheap!
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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aliveagain
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posted March 22, 2003 05:40 PM
BA,I've seen those marks on other bikes of mine and used a dremel to smooth it out and get some more miles out of them.Told you I was cheap.I don't know if I want to chance it on the 12. Big difference between that and a harley dresser.I took my first real ride on the 12 since changing to 17/48I like it alot more.Can't wait to get the yellow box so I can see how my mpg changed.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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kcadby
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posted March 22, 2003 05:59 PM
The groaning noise is from the lack of oil to the clutch...
You should have bought the Muzzy clutch kit instead of just plates IMO...
A few people have broken the stock basket but if you don't EVER race then it will probably be OK...
Synthetic oil might help the clutch noise but I doubt it...
We are going to put a new inner hub in John's bike pretty soon because it has those notches in it also...
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BA
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posted March 22, 2003 10:12 PM
Kevin and I are probably on the same page here, but I'm going to be more direct. 
A. The lack of oil in the basket area and drag racing are a BAD mix. If you're going to drag race much at all, then you'll want the oil mods.
One mod. is sold by Muzzy's, but you can do it at home too. Or have a Kawi dealer do it. It only involves a bunch of small 1/16" holes in the inner hub. The other is a slight flat spot ground into the puller shaft. Pictures would best show that.
I think Muzzy's also has a new inner hub bearing that has either an extra or enlarged oil flow hole in it. Their kit is about $300 I think.
From the sound of it, the noise you hear is from a dry-ish clutch. If the noise only comes right as you are engaging the clutch, and NOT when the clutch is either all the way in or out, then yes, it'd be too dry in there.
B. I think the clutch basket breakage is far less common, but it DOES happen, and when it does you'd better be crossing your fingers. 1. hoping you don't crack the clutch cover and potentially engine parts. 2. that any subsequent oil leak doesn't put you on the pavement!
I'd guess that for most of us, we think of it as cheap insurance! it's about $300.
The risk of engine damage is just too great if you race a lot without it.
I thought about the Dremel thing, but then the steel plates would have that little bit of a gap, and I figured with the 12's power, and me racing, I'd just be back to notches in a month or two. :-/
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Zhooligan
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posted March 22, 2003 10:48 PM
I'd be careful with your dremmel alive. Being cheap is one thing but sving money in an area like the clutch basket could cost you thousands of dollars upon detonation! t 10 or 11 thousand rpm the clutch basket coming apart has a tendency to destroy significant amounts or parts of your bike. Or you find yourself in a big sweeper leaned over and things come apart things sieze and your on your head.
If your going to be running things hard get the upgrade hub and basket. Keep an eye on things for wear. Your particulr riding style will determine your particular wear pattern and rate.
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future; -- Youth is forever.
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kangpow
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posted March 23, 2003 04:32 AM
Does the 2003 need the upgrade (hub and basket) ????
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CrotchRocket
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posted March 23, 2003 05:35 AM
If you dont want to or cant drill the hub, you can buy a OEM hub and bearing sleeve from the 2002/2003...The Billet Basket is a must for DragRacing!!!...6 ZX6r clutch springs from a 2000 are needed also!!!
CrotchRocket
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aliveagain
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posted March 23, 2003 07:03 PM
Has anyone ever tried tapping into the oil system and have it spray into the clutch cavity. just turning things over in my head,I guess I would have to play around with a higher output pump.What if I ran half a liter more of oil,would I get any foaming effect?I thought I read in a post before about even if one does the oil holes, it still doesn't get enough oil and they over heat if one doesn't alow the plates to cool after drag racing.Ido have the upgraded springs.thanx for your time and help.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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wannabe
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posted March 23, 2003 07:07 PM
It gets plenty of oil with the holes. If you think you need more, you could always grind a flat on the side of the puller to allow more oil to flow into the chamber.
But, remember, if you have to much oil in there it's not good for performance either.
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aliveagain
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posted March 24, 2003 06:51 PM
BA, at what depth(steel indentations) did you replace the hub or was it just because of the feel from the cable pull?
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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BA
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posted March 24, 2003 08:54 PM
A very, very good racer told me......"if you've got indentations, then the clutch pack will not provide a consistent movement as you're slipping the clutch on the launch."
So, I don't have measurements, but I have to tell you that by racing and riding, I didn't know I had a problem. I just didn't know.
If you take that stack off though, and just try putting on a single steel, you can at least feel first-hand whether it's 'sticking' or not.
It's something I'm going to keep my eye on from now on..............well, that and the little spacer that goes on the backside of the rear rim carrier. 
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wannabe
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posted March 24, 2003 09:28 PM
quote:
It's something I'm going to keep my eye on from now on..............well, that and the little spacer that goes on the backside of the rear rim carrier.
hahahaha! I don't mean to laugh at your pain, but that was funny!
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wannabe
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posted March 24, 2003 09:30 PM
quote:
Does the 2003 need the upgrade (hub and basket) ????
The 2002 and newer bikes have the hub already drilled with the oil holes. The guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that 2002 is the year that Kawasaki finally figured it out and made the change.
But, having said that, if you're drag racing, even with the 2003, I would still get the billet clutch basket.
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TurboBlew
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posted March 25, 2003 03:39 AM
Have you even looked at a 2002 clutch? Kawi didnt do anything, except maybe install some heavier clutch springs (as compared to a 2000 model) and change the spring configuration on the clutch basket
A billet basket is a must. Its dynamically balanced and will net you an extra hp or two.
quote:
The 2002 and newer bikes have the hub already drilled with the oil holes. The guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that 2002 is the year that Kawasaki finally figured it out and made the change.
But, having said that, if you're drag racing, even with the 2003, I would still get the billet clutch basket.
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MadMike
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posted March 25, 2003 05:42 AM
I totally agree!! go the extra mile and get the Muzzy billet basket and Hub and you will be much happier! one less thing you have to worry about!!
Mad Mike
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wannabe
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posted March 25, 2003 08:35 AM
Oops. My bad. Thanks for correcting me on that, Turbo. 
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