stevebond
Novice Class
Posts: 33
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posted March 27, 2003 11:27 AM
Thought you might like to have an update of my Running Rich prob. The short answer is no solution yet!
After my dealer had a go I contacted a well respected Race Mechanic who knows his stuff. He said it sounded like the pressure senor was faulty.I said the dealer had checked these out already. Neverthe less I ordered a new one and fitted it -no change. My dealer suggests the next step is changing the bank of injectors & fuel regulator-not cheap overhere.
I've been in touch with Kawasaki UK and a nice lady emails me to say shes looking into it.
( I phoned them myself before the dealer did-They (very politely) told me they would only discuss it with the dealer. When my dealer subsequently rang them they offered no solution.
Your not telling me I'm the only one in the world with a 12 thats had this problem?
And I cant see throttle bodies being worn out on a two & half year old bike with 11000 miles on the clock.
So my bike is in bits in my garage and (surprise surprise) its been quite a nice week in the UK.If I didnt have other stuff to ride I would be crawling off the roof. Steve
   
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted March 27, 2003 02:05 PM
 Edited By: dougmeyer on 27 Mar 2003 14:07
Steve,
When you hear hoofbeats don't look for Zebras, look for horses.
Your problem is most likely very basic. When you "had 'er on the bench in bits" you broke or altered a circuit, messed up a plug, shorted your ECU or misplugged TPS (this can cause permanent TPS damage even if the plugs are subsequently installed correctly). Go back over EVERYTHING YOU TOUCHED. Your throttle bodies are not "worn out", the regulator won't cause it (stuck either open or closed), the pressure sensor can't cause it (although the temp sensor could). Something is TELLING the engine that it needs more fuel than is correct or it is mis-reading how much air it is getting (TPS/RPM signal). Try swapping an ECU from a correctly running bike, or swapping a set of throttle bodies (with TPS) and "look for the horse".
Simple as that.
Doug
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stevebond
Novice Class
Posts: 33
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posted March 27, 2003 02:17 PM
Thanks for that Doug- I intend getting stuck in this next week. I've been tied up with the business and in my spare time I've had a couple of other projects to get out of the way - a Suzuki Katana 11000 I'm selling on -(1983 better than new)- and an Ariel Pixie 1964 I had to MOT to get a personal Reg off that I wanted to keep. Next week its back to Kwackers!
Luckily I've a Hayabusa, an off road KLX 300R and a KTM Supermoto to enjoy -have you tried a sup[rmoto? its big over here at present. really good fun to ride and at lesserspeeds. Steve
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted March 28, 2003 04:24 PM
Steve you don't need to drop the engine to do anything (remove) the throttle bodies...do like DOUG says...Check the parts the he said to check...he knows the 12s VERY well...
Cowboy...You shouldn't have any problems as long as you keep the 2000 throttle bodies (or TPS) on the bike...
I don't remember which part is diff. (DUH) on the 01- (MPS plug or TPS plug) but in either case..."THOSE PARTS aren't on the motor" so switching motors won't matter...
The MPS is bolted to the bike and the TPS is on the throttle bodies...
Know what I mean??? 
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stevebond
Novice Class
Posts: 33
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posted March 29, 2003 02:59 PM
doug-
The inlet air pressure sensor (? left side just forward of injectors) gave 2.7 to 3.3 volts -is this right?
the atmospheric sensor (in tailpiece) we changed for another sensor-no change.
we also diconnected them in turn with engine running -no change.
the third sensor you refer to -is this the one on left hand side of injector block? cant find any others. Steve
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zx12richard
Pro
The Green Monster..
Posts: 1133
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posted May 15, 2003 11:43 AM
Top... Steve Ever find the answer I think I have the same troubles..
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zx12richard
Pro
The Green Monster..
Posts: 1133
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posted May 15, 2003 12:08 PM
quote:
Steve,
When you hear hoofbeats don't look for Zebras, look for horses.
Your problem is most likely very basic. When you "had 'er on the bench in bits" you broke or altered a circuit, messed up a plug, shorted your ECU or misplugged TPS (this can cause permanent TPS damage even if the plugs are subsequently installed correctly). Go back over EVERYTHING YOU TOUCHED. Your throttle bodies are not "worn out", the regulator won't cause it (stuck either open or closed), the pressure sensor can't cause it (although the temp sensor could). Something is TELLING the engine that it needs more fuel than is correct or it is mis-reading how much air it is getting (TPS/RPM signal). Try swapping an ECU from a correctly running bike, or swapping a set of throttle bodies (with TPS) and "look for the horse".
Simple as that.
Doug
Doug I think I have the same troubles going on... Will these things trow a fault code...
I have the conditions as describe but no codes... My dealer is thinking compression but had to order the gauge to check it.... I thinking TPS but not smart enough to check it myself as I am electrically challenged...
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zx12richard
Pro
The Green Monster..
Posts: 1133
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posted May 15, 2003 12:50 PM
Steves trouble turned out to be throttle position sensor he told me thru an email just now... Can you buy those from Kawi?????
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stevebond
Novice Class
Posts: 33
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posted May 15, 2003 02:58 PM
No-Kawasaki will only sell a COMPLETE ASSEMBLY -in Uk -£1300 pounds plus VAT- I used an old throttle position sensor off a Suzuki that a pal had in his toolbox.
This cured it!
My thanks to "Doug" in the USA who did his best to point me in the right direction.
I used to be Ok with old fashioned stuff (I'm 55 ) carbs etc. but I'm not too good with the modern fuel injection etc.
I've ran my 12 for a few weeks now and she's fine.
I've been a Kawasaki nut for quite a few years now, why I don't know -they aint too good on back up.
In my garage I have a ZX12R, 300KLx, ZRX1200 amongst others
Steve
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zx12richard
Pro
The Green Monster..
Posts: 1133
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posted May 15, 2003 08:08 PM
Steve did yours have a bad idle problem also during this???? I am always turning up the idle screw.... Thanxxxx And can you find out what the sensor was off of you used???? Maybe your buddy has an idea??? Thanxxxx
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted May 15, 2003 08:38 PM
steve..... post 28
am i reading that post correctly
that you CAN NOT buy a TPS SEARATELY
im almost certain its not necessary to buy a complete bank og injectors
for a TPS
in addition...... do you have any... any idea why your
TPS went bad ???
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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zx12richard
Pro
The Green Monster..
Posts: 1133
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posted May 16, 2003 05:54 AM
top
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stevebond
Novice Class
Posts: 33
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posted May 16, 2003 12:24 PM
Flite leader-Thats right-In UK Kawasaki only supply the complete assembly!
What a rip off!
No idea why the sensor packed up but it did.
The junk one I used was off a Suzuki-I dont know which.
The sensors are actually made by a Jap company for all the major manufacturers,so odds are they are very similar anyway.
This one I've got on works fine. I don't see the sense in paying loads of dosh when its only the sensor thats knackered.I complained to Kawasaki UK and I've not heard off them since!
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WARBIRD
Needs a job
Posts: 2739
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posted May 16, 2003 07:42 PM
Edited By: WARBIRD on 16 May 2003 20:46
quote:
steve..... post 28
am i reading that post correctly
that you CAN NOT buy a TPS SEARATELY
im almost certain its not necessary to buy a complete bank og injectors
for a TPS
in addition...... do you have any... any idea why your
TPS went bad ???
No........you cannot buy the tps seperatly, it is part of the throttle body assy. (very expensive)
Most probably Steve reversed the plugs (Grey Plug-Manifold Pressure Sensor)with the Black - TPS plug, damaging the TPS . Like Doug said, this could only be done on the 2000 models.
I posted the service bulletin a couple years ago, ( I'm sure kcadby remembers)but I did not know the bulletin was released because Doug discovered this until just now. The bulletin was released in the spring, 2001 edition of K-Tech News and written by Alex Dell.
Quote:"Exactly. The service bulletin was a result of my very own initial screw up and report to KMC. The grey plug goes on the manifold pressure sensor, the black one on the TPS. Only possible on 2000's.
Doug
My dealer gave it to me the day he received it, and I was glad he did. 
____________
I'd Rather Be Roadracing.
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stevebond
Novice Class
Posts: 33
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posted May 16, 2003 10:53 PM
zx12richard-
my dealer found no faults logged in the brain-everything appeared ok, but it was the throttle position sensor.kawasaki dealer told me the assembly was"set up" at factory and shouldn't be stripped!(the bolts they secure it with arent made to be readily removed.)also as a dealer he couldn't have recommended doing what i have one. I dont mind paying out when necessary but this was a ridiculous state of affairs.Why not have a wander round a Suzuki dealers or breakers and find one? They are fitted to other makes as well. Steve
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zx12richard
Pro
The Green Monster..
Posts: 1133
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posted May 20, 2003 09:30 AM
I know I didn't do damage by putting wrong on on wrong spot cause mine hasn't been undone...
Do you have any Idea of the maker of the TPS or what Suzuki you got the TPS off of????
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stevebond
Novice Class
Posts: 33
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posted May 21, 2003 03:44 AM
Richard -Just seen my pal- The sensor he used on mine was off a Suzuki GSXR600-apparently available and the same as the Kwacker one! Mines OK-Steve
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stevebond
Novice Class
Posts: 33
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posted May 21, 2003 03:45 AM
Wish I was back in sixties again with leaky Truimphs. At least they were easy fixed and parts cheap.!Steve
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stevebond
Novice Class
Posts: 33
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posted May 21, 2003 03:51 AM
WARBIRD-Just read your profile.
I operate a Piper Arrow 4. Need parts from States occassionaly, send me a contact number/address whatever. Steve
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zx12richard
Pro
The Green Monster..
Posts: 1133
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posted May 21, 2003 05:25 AM
Thanxxx Steve... I going to be at the track weekend working and now scouting for a 600 GSXR to look at.... Thanxxx Again...
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