swft
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posted January 23, 2003 02:05 PM
Ride magazine ZZR1200 vs. ZX12R
Did you ever fancy being James Bond? The glamour, the adrenalin, the girls. But think about it for real. What would you do if a fat Korean man attacked you with a sharp bowler hat? Are you absolutely sure you could defulse a nuclear warhead? And what if that giant bloke with wonky metal teeth took a dislike to you; could you knock him out with a single karate-chop? If you're like most of us, you're probably not up to dealing with grief like this. If you really are a near superhero with abilities outstripping the majoriity , one of the machines on test is the bike for you. If not, or if you just fancy an easy life, the other's far more suitable.
On paper both should be brilliant all-round machines. We wanted stacks of smooth, accessible power, all-day-no-twinge comfort and handling that'd slurp down miles of dual carriageway as well as skipping light-footed through tight, scnic bends. In a way, both bikes are slightly anomalous combinations of the very sensible/easy to live with and the fast enough to get you banged up or worse; an easy life and a loaded gun, all in one.
The first is Kawasaki's ZZ-R1200, a new=for-2002 machine which replaced the legendary ZZ-R1100. The 1100 was an excellent bike in it's day, providing decent comfort yet running with the top sportsbikes. But that was 1990 and there's no way a bike with any ounce of touring ability could come close to an R1 or GSXR1000. Or is there? Enter the ZX12R. It's the most powerful production bike you can buy and has a decidedly sporty slant to it's character. It's heavery than the A-grade sports machines but has a bout 30 bhp more at it's disposal. Could it be a match for them, yet also be all-day comfy and pot-to-the-shops handy too?
Trudging up the A1 in the rain, both bikes performed well but felt a bit wast3ed. The ZZ-R was comfy at all speeds, and the fairing did a decent job of keeping the rain and cold at bay. The brakes are pretty strong and were the only thing needing any concentration as an over-eager squeeze on a slippery patch could have caused a nerve-wracking lock up. Having riddend a VFR800 earlier that day, the ZZR's engine felt massively powerful with a huge, muscular midrange. When clear patches appeared it rolled effortlessly to a cruising speed near double the legal limit. Comfortable yetdistrubing at the same time (but stacks of fun and a genuine way to cut journey time).
The ZX12R's monster motor was blinding on the A1. The midrange is so strong it's hardly worth revving hard unless you're trying to waste a Ferrari. Even with just 4000 rpm on the tach it was pulling hard. It made the ZZr's midrange look a bit weak; which shows just how strong the ZX's engine is. Top end power is just crazy and best used sparingly. Unfortunately, other than the engine the ZX wasn't brilliant. You needed to keep the speed oabove 80mph or suffer wrist-ache from the low bars and other traffic meant this wasn't always possible. This took sme of the fun out of blitzing motors and showing off the 'feel the girth' 200-sectin rear tire. Weather protectin was OK and there was very little turbulence at head level but this could be due to the screen being quite low.
Fule injection on the ZX was almost too instant and rolling on and off the trhottle had a sharp, 'kangaroo' effect, unlike the smoother carburetted ZZR. Fuel consumption's another area where the carbed bike beat the injected machine, which was a surprise. Normally electronic injection meters the fule more efficiently and the ZX seemed to need even less throttle movement than the ZZR - yet during the test (which included plenty of dual carriageways) it did 34mpg while the ZZR managed 44. It ohly makes a difference of $450 a year (10,000 miles) and if you're thinking of buying a new bike, depreciation's far more significant but it's still a factor.
The ZX should have excelled more as we left the A1 and started blitzing the tight, challenging Peak Dsitrict roads, but it didn't. The ZX didn't like going slowly at all. The hard front suspension twitched and skidding over bumps and the massive, sudden power felt like it would spin the back out on wet corners. The low bars were awkward and with no chance to get the speed high enough to gain support from the wind, they were uncomfortable on the wrists too. Withink 10 miutes I'd noticed it and by half-an-hour there was a painful tension between my shoulder blades. It was a difficult bike to ride on tight roads and seemed hemmed in and awkward. At slow speeds it was tall, bulky and frustrating. In dryer conditions it would have been better but there's nowhere you can use all that power without going onto a major road.
It wasn't much better in town. Normally when visiting scenic areas, crusing through the twee towns of a rufty-tufty bike can be a bonus. Firm-thighted yound lady walkers look horrifed and impressed in equal measure which is always fun. Except on the ZX. Th slightly tall first gear means you're slipping the clutch until about 15mph. To make matters worse the clutch lever is well away from the bar, a firm pull and not adjustable - making slow speeds hard work.
The ZZR was a much more enjoyyable beast. The higher bars made it more comfortable, although they were still a touch low for all-day pottering. The suspension did a far better job of soaking up bumps and keeping the bars pointing where the rider wanted to go. It's still a heavy bike and quite long. A sporty 600 would it a right punching on sub-100 mph roads. But against the ZX, the ZZR's engine felt less of a handful on the slippy roads adn the bike was far more comfortable.
Descending frm the Cat and Fiddle we founda patch of sun and a few miles of dry Tarmac. The ZZR shifted from caution mode to playful powerhouse. It rolled confidently in and out of corners and wolfed up straights with a millimeter of throttle. The ZX was just as quck but still felt like it neede dmore space to be let off the leash. Without it there was no wasy to make us of those 160+ horsepower. On sweeping A-roads the ZX does become a serious weapon. Get it in that pumped-up midrange or above and you'll blitz everything. The chassis works best in that zone as you're not leaning or accelerating hard enought to get the front shaking. You can even hold enought speed to say comfy. When it all comes together it's very easy to love the ZX and buy into it's 'most powerful bike' concept. The glamour and preceived invincibility wash away the downsides...until the next slow bit.
These being all-rounders, you expect a good range of equipment. The ZZR ticks all the right boxes; 200-mile fuel range, centerstand, decent comfort for rider and passenger. Some owners have reported a weaving sensation from the steering head which cnagingin tires and adusting head bearings doesn't fix, but it's not a major problem. The ZX12R isnt' so well papointed. The fule light generally starts flashing before 140 miles, there's no centerstand and comfort is poor.
Ultimately, the ZX12R fails because it tries to do too much and ends up not doing anything that well. As a pure sports machine, it's flawed. It's much heavier than ultra-sports bikes (by about 35kg) so it'll never match them in the bends. That extra mass almost entirely cancles out it's power advantage too and unless you're flat out above 150mph a GSXR1000 will easily hold with it. The ZX is also missing the total steering composure of a true sportsbike. And R1 will dive into bends, whisk through and blast out as cleanly as a tornado-twister with a tiny foot-wide funnel base. The ZX's more like a sprawling, clumsy hurricane, less precise with occasionally flappy steering. As a tourer the seating position needed to score those massive top speeds is uncomfy below the UK legal limit. The tank range is maller than some sporty 600s and, while the mamoth midrange is useful, that searing top end is unused much of the time. It's a real shame the bie's so poor in 'real world' situations. It's Kawasaki's flagship and uses a high-tech monocoque design where the airbox is a stressed part of the frame. Kawasaki bosses have just announced their new ZX-6R and Z1000 are the beginning of a new generation and in previous years the firm ahd 'lost it's way'. Could that mean these 1200's from Kawasaki are 'iffy' period? We'd agree about the ZX, but not the ZZR.
Unlike it's 1100 predecessor, the ZZR1200 is more honest and makes no attempt to be a sportsbike. It just gets on with being an excellent all-rounder with easy handling, everyday comfort and a motor that's calm when you want it to be but is poised to erupt like a volcano should you give the word.
  
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swft
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posted January 23, 2003 09:06 PM
Dang, 25 people looked at it and no comments? 
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zx12mark
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posted January 23, 2003 10:12 PM
hot rod
how many times will it need to be said that the ZX12R is a HOT ROD. these goofy fuckers try to dream it into something it's not. their scared of it. i am too but i accept that it's trying to kill me and marvel at what kawasaki has built every time i look at it or ride it. their scaaaaaarrrrreeeeeddddd.....killer
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Zhooligan
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posted January 23, 2003 10:59 PM
Frankly, most people just don't get it. Like ZX12mark said the 12 is a hotrod. You don't by a ZX12 because it is practical. Just like you don't buy a viper because it gets great gas mileage, or it's comfortable for cross country drives, or for trips to the market. That said if you you could afford it or someone gave you a Viper, most (actually all) guys I know would drive it to the market (burn outs etc. on the way), and who could resist a route 66 style cross country trip in the Viper? It's called fun, passion etc. And all of the scooter, VFR riding motorcycle writers don't get it!
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has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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harryzx-12
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posted January 24, 2003 03:56 AM
My zx-12 has heli-bars and lowered footpegs and the riding position is better than a zzr-1200. I sat on a zzr in the local dealer and then left riding my bike and I like my 12 better.Plus you still got that UGLY fuckin tail light to look at every time you go to ride the zzr. I don't doubt the zzr is a good bike.
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways- Body thoroughly used up, totally worn out...Screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride !!!"
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Ninjaman12R
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posted January 24, 2003 06:25 AM
Funny Thing Is.....
The funny thing about the 12 is people either love it or hate it. I actually think the 12 does a good job at being "somewhat" an all-rounder. Out of the crate I think a 12 is a "Diamond in the Rough". Put a ZX-12R in competent hands, (someone who does the right mods, dials in the suspension, and isn't scared to let the fucker roll) and you've got your work cut out for you if you plan on keeping up.
In the real tight stuff it is a beast. The weight of the bike hurts it, and in some ways the major league power does too. All you guys who actually use your 12's power know what I'm talking about. It's really easy to get the motor "on the boil" exiting a corner and then find yourself overcooking the next entry. So I'll be the first to admit that in the tight stuff the 12 is a bit of work, but ridden right they're still impressive.
But when you throw in a mix of sweepers, and any straights that are worth mentioning, then the 12 is truly in it's element. The Cherohala Skyway is a stretch of road that I believe the 12 was made for. You guys that have ridden that road know what I mean.
With the guys I ride with, it doesn't matter what type of road we're on, the 12 is in front.  As far as I'm concerned I think Kaw did a good job with the 12, and IMHO it's pretty damned comfortable. Not dissing the ZZR by any means, I owned 2 ZX-11s and loved them. But the 12 has them beat in my book, way more fun to ride.
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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OZZY
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posted January 24, 2003 06:54 AM
 Edited By: OZZY on 24 Jan 2003 06:56
The writer must normally ride a Gold Wing since he is complaining about sore wrists in one half hour.
Dam pussy boy if you ask me.
I can ride 12 hr days and not have sore wrists, with STOCK bars. Hell 4-5 hrs rides with a broken shoulder and stock bars was not hard on my wrists or shoulder.
Maybe the pussy boy is vertically challenged and the reach to the bars was too great a distance for him.
That Writer must be a limp wristed peter pulling vertically challenged pussy boy.
The ZZR-1200 would be a nice bike to own, but I can have only one, so the 12R keeps its spot in my garage.
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"It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses......HIT IT!"
Blues Bros.
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mixzx12
Parking Attendant
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posted January 24, 2003 07:09 AM
What a dickhead! Why write about a 12R using words like slow and comfort. If you wanted a BMW you'd buy one. The 12 looks and performs aggressively, and the buzz about riding one is the power to take you to 300+. If little tours around low speed roads is his preference then try a 600. I notice too there was fuck all comment about the ZZR being pushed hard.
And as for turning heads when riding into a town, I'd rather be slipping the clutch than be on a lounge chair with a front end that looks like a ruptured scrotum.
It's not an R1 or Gixxer Thou... so friggin what. Kawa never set out designing this bike to ride on the track. It is a raw power machine capable of getting around corners, but on the straights, goodnight everyone else.
Mick
'00 ZX-12R
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swft
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posted January 24, 2003 07:57 AM
I posted over on Labusas, and my comparison was like this:
ZZR1200 - .45 ACP. Heavy hitter, real knock down power, comfortable in your hand.
ZX12R - .44 AutoMag. Beautiful, good for blowing chunks off, who cares about comfort?
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xtremespeed
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posted January 24, 2003 01:25 PM
Ecsatatic that so many people don't like the ZX. I would hate to see everyone with a bike like ours. How much fun is a Ferrari if everyone on the block has one? Keep right on telling us how our bikes are inferior to everything else, and we will smile and wave everytime we pass you on that long straight stretch.
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swft
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posted January 24, 2003 02:28 PM
Xtreme - Who are you referring to? I own 2 12s, just in case that's not clear.
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stevebond
Novice Class
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posted January 24, 2003 04:07 PM
I'm a Zx12R owner -I find it comfortable and a good fast allrounder although my wife doesn't like the passenger seat!
I also owned a ZZR 1100 and loved that too.
I dont think you can compare 2 bikes that are aimed at different markets. horses for courses
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xtremespeed
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posted January 24, 2003 05:01 PM
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I am referring to all the magazines and so-called professional test pilots who are always finding ways to bash the 12. Being on this website I assumed you were a 12 owner. I'm sure i can speak for most of the people here when I say the ZX rocks. When I said we will smile and wave, I was referring to those of us, including you, on this site and others who think that the 12 is one of the greatest bikes of all time.
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Zhooligan
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posted January 24, 2003 05:17 PM
Nice wheelie picture there extremespeed!
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To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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xtremespeed
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posted January 24, 2003 05:34 PM
Thanks Z.
I want to try to get a better one sometime. My wife took that one at a local church before we had a digital camera.
Kind of hard to get it in focus just right.
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Zhooligan
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posted January 24, 2003 05:42 PM
My best wheelies seem to happen when I am by myself. I have had a few good pictures taken at the race track, but I none on my 12.
____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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Ninjaman12R
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posted January 24, 2003 07:31 PM
I wish...........
I wish I had some good wheelie pics, or even some good video of a few wheelies. What I have is crappy video, and crappy scans of even shitier 35mm pics. Here are two of the crappy scans I've got. I'd definitely like some better quality pics.
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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r21xz
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posted January 25, 2003 06:25 PM
Yep,my 12 is heavier,worse handling,and less sporty than the R1's,gix's, etc.,but somehow it manages to be in front all the time........
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xtremespeed
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posted January 25, 2003 10:03 PM
Lmao. Great pic Z. Looks like the Busa may finally outrun a Kaw.
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted January 26, 2003 09:22 AM
both great bikes in their own right....but I still like my 12R.,..... 
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turbojet
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posted January 26, 2003 07:56 PM
Both are good bikes, but I gotta say the BUSA takes the cake!!
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ULOSE
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted January 27, 2003 01:41 AM
ouch....he said the B word in here....ewwwwww
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xtremespeed
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posted January 27, 2003 09:08 PM
Shurely he meant the B word over the Blue one in Z's post, and not over a 12R. Shurely.
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Zhooligan
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posted January 27, 2003 11:19 PM
I just assumed he meant fruit cake!
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To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
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future; -- Youth is forever.
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FastBikes4Life
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posted March 08, 2003 05:30 PM
Everyone here is right on the money. How in the world can you ride a ZX-12R and start questioning things like comfort? What's next, noise level? Or perhaps the engine was a little too "buzzy" for the author at around 4000 rpm. The guy who wrote that article is a weenie! One of the earlier comments was that he probably rides a Gold Wing. I bet that's correct.
In his mind motorcycling is all about taking in nature and tying up traffic lanes for miles behind him while he pokes along at well below the speed limit listening to birds chirping or some other ridiculous distraction. To him biking is an open-air get away where he and his wife can ride into the sunset at 45 mph and stop off to have eggs and bacon the following morning. Riders like this turn my stomach.
For us it's all about earth ripping power and blinding speed. Most people who read this board could care less about comfort. They bought their bikes to go fast. That's what the ZX-12R was built to do and that is what it does - and does well!!
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