zixxer14

Pro
Damn that was Quick
Posts: 1233
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posted January 06, 2011 08:20 PM
Buy something else!
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted January 07, 2011 06:06 PM
This is a good article
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Jan/110106kawza10.htm
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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IMFASTTOO
Zone Head
Posts: 567
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posted January 07, 2011 07:39 PM
THAT is a good artical and if thatsany indication of what the REAL ZX 10s like it will be a WINNER
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Y2KZX12R

Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted January 08, 2011 06:01 AM
Suzuki will have to really step up with the new GSXR1000 next year.
But at least for this year the zx10 will be king.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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TNCHIP
Expert Class
Posts: 164
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posted January 09, 2011 08:33 AM
The U.S. version of the ZX-10 will not win Track tests or Drag runs against the S1000RR.
The lack of power will put it behind in performance tests, might do good as a street bike.
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted January 09, 2011 11:51 AM
quote: The U.S. version of the ZX-10 will not win Track tests or Drag runs against the S1000RR.
The lack of power will put it behind in performance tests, might do good as a street bike.
Couldn't agree more. It is heading for a sales flop unless the recall magically upped the HP. The majority of the buyers look at that HP number as their #1 consideration. Doesn't matter that you can buy parts to unleash it, you can do that with most bikes. They want to jump on and have what they need, and with the stricter laws about modified exhaust it is only going to get worse.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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smokinZX14

Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted January 09, 2011 01:42 PM
quote:
quote: The U.S. version of the ZX-10 will not win Track tests or Drag runs against the S1000RR.
The lack of power will put it behind in performance tests, might do good as a street bike.
Couldn't agree more. It is heading for a sales flop unless the recall magically upped the HP. The majority of the buyers look at that HP number as their #1 consideration. Doesn't matter that you can buy parts to unleash it, you can do that with most bikes. They want to jump on and have what they need, and with the stricter laws about modified exhaust it is only going to get worse.
+1 I'm not buying one if it makes less HP than a BMW , in fact it would have to make 5 to 10 HP more than a BMW for me to buy one..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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TNCHIP
Expert Class
Posts: 164
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posted January 09, 2011 02:04 PM
I might put one next to my Beemer if it made the same HP but was lighter.
The weight they are claiming is equal to the CBR1000RR,very light ,but being
20-25 ponies down is a deal breaker.
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Shane661

Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted January 09, 2011 02:06 PM
quote: I might put one next to my Beemer if it made the same HP but was lighter.
The weight they are claiming is equal to the CBR1000RR,very light ,but being
20-25 ponies down is a deal breaker.
"20-25 ponies down". Yeah, whatever you say.....
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TNCHIP
Expert Class
Posts: 164
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posted January 09, 2011 02:11 PM
Kaw says the U.S. version is 22 HP down on the euro version, Akrapovic dyno results
show the euro version 7 hp down to the S1000RR.
U.S. bikes will dyno 20-25 ponies less than BMW
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Shane661

Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted January 09, 2011 03:56 PM
quote:
U.S. bikes will dyno 20-25 ponies less than BMW
My local dyno shows a stock 2008 10R down 8 hp from a stock BMW.
20-25 hp??? That is rich!!!!
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TNCHIP
Expert Class
Posts: 164
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posted January 09, 2011 05:29 PM
I'm taking Kaw at their word, 22 HP cut is a slap in the face for us American buyers.
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted January 09, 2011 06:57 PM
Be careful about HP numbers between US and EURO sometimes they have to state SAE numbers and they are different. There is also some other spec that the US uses the is different.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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Hells Dark Lord

Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted January 10, 2011 07:52 AM
OK after reading almost 6 pages of drivel I still don't have a clear picture as to whats wrong with the new ZX10R. So someone break it down and leave all the fancy lingo and brand loyalty crap out of it, I would like to see just FACTS on this recall.
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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fish_antlers

Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted January 10, 2011 10:45 AM
issue surrounding the intake valve spring and cam profile. Intake valves, springs and associated bits (bucket etc I believe) are being replaced in every motor along with the cams.
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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Hells Dark Lord

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living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted January 10, 2011 12:27 PM
Thanks Fish....found it in some other threads as I read through....if its valve springs, and valve train related why would KHI take back the bikes already sold instead of just doing a recall and replacing the parts that are faulty? doesn't seem like a smart move to me.
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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fish_antlers

Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted January 10, 2011 12:32 PM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 10 Jan 2011 20:33
because apparently they had only delivered about 11 of them (stateside) to customers so the "buyback" doesnt effect too many folk.
FYI this cycleworld bit accurately describes exactly what is going on...
http://blog.cycleworld.com/?p=2384#more-2384
quote: The long mystery sales hold on the 2011 Kawasaki ZX-10R is scheduled to end in late January, and the company has given an explanation for the holdup: the possibility of intake-valve spring surge (coil vibration) under what Kawasaki calls “unique riding conditions, such as on a racetrack.”
The intake camshaft, valve springs and spring retainers of new ZX-10Rs will be replaced to eliminate this possibility, “without affecting engine performance.”
Computers are wonderful tools, but physical testing continues to be essential for critical performance areas, such as valve-train stability. Valve-spring surge is the rapid bouncing of a wave of compression from one end of the spring to the other. It is excited by very rapid cam acceleration. Surge results in a swift variation in spring pressure acting against the spring retainer, which is fixed by a pair of tapered collets to the end of the valve stem. This pressure variation can result in the valve’s failing to accurately follow the cam contour, or, as Kawasaki’s press release words it, “The surge could cause the intake valve to seat improperly.” Improperly means hitting the seat at too high a speed, leading to bouncing and damage.
Every manufacturer must deal with the possibility of surge, beginning with a computer model, moving to rig and dyno tests, and finishing with road and track mileage. Spring surge is very speed dependent, so much of an engine’s defense against surge comes from the fact that, in track use, rpm is constantly changing—never holding constant at the one particular speed that makes surge most likely. I suspect that Kawasaki discovered a possibility that surge could develop if rpm were held at one particular high and constant value, and decided to withhold the machines from sale until even this possibility could be eliminated.
The new cam may be subtly reshaped to suppress surge, the new springs may have a different natural frequency and the new retainers are most likely required because the new valve spring length is somewhat changed. All these changes can be accomplished without affecting engine airflow—or, as the Kawasaki release says, “without affecting engine performance.”
People are expecting a lot from this new ZX-10R on both street and track, which motivates Kawasaki to ensure that they are not disappointed.
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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Shane661

Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted January 10, 2011 12:36 PM
quote: Thanks Fish....found it in some other threads as I read through....if its valve springs, and valve train related why would KHI take back the bikes already sold instead of just doing a recall and replacing the parts that are faulty? doesn't seem like a smart move to me.
Probably because they have no way of knowing if there has been any mild damage/engine wear already. For example, there could be some contact of the valves and pistons, or maybe even damage to the valves or seats....that sort of thing, which would possibly show up as warranty claims later. To fully inspect these engines, you would have to pull the heads. That could get really expensive, and they probably did the math. In the end, it probably comes down to money.
Just a guess?
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fish_antlers

Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted January 10, 2011 12:40 PM
quote:
quote: Thanks Fish....found it in some other threads as I read through....if its valve springs, and valve train related why would KHI take back the bikes already sold instead of just doing a recall and replacing the parts that are faulty? doesn't seem like a smart move to me.
Probably because they have no way of knowing if there has been any mild damage/engine wear already. For example, there could be some contact of the valves and pistons, or maybe even damage to the valves or seats....that sort of thing, which would possibly show up as warranty claims later. To fully inspect these engines, you would have to pull the heads. That could get really expensive, and they probably did the math. In the end, it probably comes down to money.
Just a guess?
I gave the answer.... read my response. And yes - under certain circumstances the engine would grenade itself hence the recall and fix.
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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Ozzy

Needs a job
need guberment cheese
Posts: 3172
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posted January 11, 2011 04:51 AM
Edited By: Ozzy on 11 Jan 2011 12:52
They must be worried about sumptin like this happnin :
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"It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses......HIT IT!"
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zixxer14

Pro
Damn that was Quick
Posts: 1233
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posted January 12, 2011 06:39 AM
I had an old chevy 350 that would do that on a regular basis. Fortunately they were easy tto change with a cheapy tool from the autoparts store. No engine disassembly other than removing the valve cover.
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SteveWFL

Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted January 17, 2011 09:38 AM
i've been out of the loop, has it been fixed? is the north american version running like the euro?
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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swiftnet

Novice Class
Posts: 88
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posted January 17, 2011 10:32 AM
I wouldn't worry too much about the HP difference between the Euro and US versions. The limiter is electronic, so getting a race chip from Europeshouldn't be too hard. I'm sure it will be listed as a "race only" upgrade, but that's what most of our aftermarket pipes are. The traction control is very interesting to me. I'm waiting to see how the new 10 performs on the track.
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Keeping the rubber side down since 1984
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RICH CRAFT 1

Zone Head
Posts: 681
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posted January 18, 2011 07:54 AM
I just found this but I don't know if it will pull the link up
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=news&cd=1&ved=0CC8QqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.visordown.com%2Fmotorcycle-racing-news-bsb%2Fkawasaki-announce-bsb-lineup%2F16761.html&ei=dLM1TajpNdLogAfH2cW5Cw&usg=AFQjCNGlkI5VOXFJ9k7WhY-97owsC8jL1
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Red 06 ZX14 RR
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bigdtd

Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted January 18, 2011 08:00 AM
quote: i've been out of the loop, has it been fixed? is the north american version running like the euro?
i have heard they detuned the us versions to deal with emissions and such, but that a flash or reprogramming/pc would fix it, and then some....
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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