vozizm
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posted January 10, 2003 01:33 PM
180
I got a set of mamba special's about a month or so ago.. 180 rear 120 front..pilot sport.... but my lazy ass just got around to putting them on yesterday!! IT WAS ABOUT 70 DEGREES here in NC..best thing is was only 15 bones for install for both!! ..i removed them from bike!!... anyways... the bike handles GREAT!!!.. took a little getting used to..but other than that....LOVELY.. i will never run anything else....i know this tire thing has been talked about b4 thats why i put this in the GD section....but you gotta try it yourself!!... them little bikes cant get away in the corners anymore!!!! go out and buy a set now...dont wait till they get worn!!...go right now get online...do something but get the 180!!!
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fastestr1
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posted January 10, 2003 03:21 PM
How much were they? And where was mamaba special at?
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Black 02, 8.99 @ 161.95 motor on NOS
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted January 10, 2003 09:28 PM
have read a bunch of stuff here and other sites about tire size....I have never run anything but a 200 on theback of the 12, prolly all i will ever run. It goes plenty fast enough for me with the 200... I rode my bro's 1K with a 180 on it and I hated it, it was way to twitchy for me, but it cornered like a dream...speeds approaching 130 on it though and it felt weird, we checked the tire pressure it was good, and even stopped at a bike shop and had the balance checked on it....never got rid of it, dont know if it was the sixe of the tire, or something to do with the steering geometry with it. Whatever it was it went away with the addition of the new 190 bt010...by the way the 180 was a bt 010 also...any ideas??? I am jsut afraid to sacrifice stability....?
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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vozizm
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posted January 11, 2003 06:11 PM
HDL...i rode a GPS indicated 147 with the 180 and no twitch?
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ZHooligan
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posted January 11, 2003 09:00 PM
I've road the limiter in 6th many a time with my 180 rear tire. the 200 was built for one reason. Kawi couldn't go faster then a busa but they could have a bigger rear tire!!
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted January 11, 2003 10:10 PM
I may have to check it out then, maybe I will go to a 190 first and see how that works....thanks for the input fellas
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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redelk
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posted January 12, 2003 07:19 AM
HDL, when you get some time, do a search using terms like "180" and "190". I'm sure you'll find some insteresting info and opinions. For example, in most brands, the 180/55 is almost identical in diameter to the 200/50 and the 190 is SMALLER! Dunlop is an exception to this. Their 190 isn't that far off the 200.
Noot that I'm a "handling expert", but it seems that most enjoy the quicker response a slightly narrower rear tire provides. I personally think it's the changing of the FRONT tire size that could possible resukt in a "twitchy feel at speed". For example, a 120/60 up front might give you "GP like" handling, but you'll be working so hard, it's not worth it.
A 120/65 is a compromise and I've found it to be stable at 160+ (actual). I believe the key is setting up the suspension to take advantage of the new sizes. In reality, with a properly set up suspension, there's little difference or gain in switching from the OEM 120/70 to any other size. It's gotten to the point that the only reason I'm running a 120/65 is becauseI'm just too lazy to readjust my suspension to go back to a 120/70 (i.e. moving the forks in the triple clamps, etc.)
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
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deathpulse
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posted January 12, 2003 09:07 AM
OK. I am clueless when it comes to suspension on a bike. I haven't changed anything from the factory  . I'm 205 LBS 6'2" - and I plan on getting a 190 or 180 rear tire - what should I change?
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted January 12, 2003 10:51 AM
i too am clueless about suspension setup, a buddy of mine fiddled with mine once I did notice a little change....it wheelies easier now.....lol I may have one of you guys look at the suspension and make some adjustments to it, or show me how to do it....I think it handles like a dream now, but it does plow the front a little bit
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redelk
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posted January 12, 2003 03:30 PM
 Edited By: redelk on 12 Jan 2003 15:34
Keep in mind.. these are the OPINIONS from a guy who's so slow, he can bearly pass a fart (or is that "a Bart"?).
First of all, ya'll need to get a copy of the "Suspension Setting Bible". Since the original "article" (about 12 pages long) in Sport Rider magazine has been copied and passed around on the web so much, the magazine has finally decided to put it up on their own website.
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0006_susp/
Many of us hold onto the original issue the article came in with a death grip. It's not the "make your bike perfect" article, but it is the closest thing to it. It also give one a better understanding on that forever baffling, "if I turn this, what happens?" question. In other words, it explains things like compression, rebound and damping. All in terms that even the Pastor can understand.
There is also some more great ride height info on their site like...
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0202_geek/
Just like they disclaim, these are just "guides" to get you going in the right direction. The are a countless number of factors, besides suspension setting, that have an effect on your bikes handling. Some you can control, some you can not.
Just a few of the things you can control are tire pressure and wheelbase (how long your chain is or location of fork tubes in the triple clamp - which also effects your rake & trail numbers). Things you can't control would be road surfaces and temperatures (ambient and road surface - you can control tire temp with your pressure).
It's the things you can't control, combined with one's personal preferences. that makes it impossible to have one setting apply to a certain weight, height or even riding style. Racers will have different set ups for different tracks. Unfortunately, we can not stop and make serious adjustments every time the road surfaces change. Thus a compromise will have to be found for a set up that works well for the majority of road surfaces YOU will be riding on.
Things you can control is where you will do this. When Road Racing World tests a bike, every time they change tires, they will take measurements of both the old and the new tires and adjust the suspension accordingly when they put the new tires on. I'm not skilled enough to know the differences when installing the same size and brand of tires I had before, but this is an important aspect when you are changing brands and or sizes of tires.
The actual diameter of a 200/50 or any other size (as indicated on the sidewall) varies greatly from brand to brand. In other words, it kinda breaks down like this:
180/55 vs. 190/50 vs. 200/50
Dunlop D207RR - 24.8" / 24.49" / NA
Dunlop D207 - 24.84" / 25.03 / 24.88"
Bridgestone BT010 - 24.7" / 24.8" / 24.9"
I wish I get the info on the others, but I can't right now. A thread that's worth looking up might be this one (among many others)...
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=1&TID=187
My point is when ever you change brands or sizes, you will be changing your suspension set up. The first things to check when switching is your bike's sag and ride height. Because your tire's diameter is different, these aspects will have changed as well. Thus, seeing as how the sag setting is kinda like the foundation for all the other settings, they will have to be changed too. That is if you want to take FULL advantage of what the new tire has to offer. Also, any other setting you adjust (compress, rebound, et. al.) will basically be a waste of time, if you haven't set the sag.
Other factors to also keep in mind are the age/condition/level of your fork oil, fork springs and the nitrogen pressure in your rear shock. Switching to a heavier RaceTech fork spring is a cheap way to really improve your forks. Also, after 2+ years and 30K+ miles, my rear shock pressure went from 143 psi to less then 60 psi. OEM rear shocks CAN be recharged. Just make sure your dealer has a "needle", because the 12R's shock isn't set up like the 6R, 7R or 9R.
On bikes with 12K+ miles on it, all the adjusting of the suspension or changing of tires will not make up for the short comings of worn out suspension. Like brake wear, it's so gradual, you really won't notice it happening. After recharging (I went to 200 psi) and changing the fork oil (and springs for us 200+ pound guys), you'll wonder how you could have even been riding the old ill handling piece of crap.
If you got the money, sending off you forks and shock (or even replacing the shock) would be the "ultimate" way to go. I don't have that kind of money, so I got what I could and did it for less then $150.
A bike's "handling" is a complex combination that's more then just turning a screw here or adding a few turns there. Still, it's not as daunting of a task or mysterious science as one would be lead to believe. Is my bike prefect? Not by any stretch. The only reason it isn't is because I haven't followed my own suggestions to the end. Even when I do, I know there'll always be some tweakin' left to be done. That's part of the joys AND the curses of finding what set up works best for YOU (or me)!
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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ZHooligan
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posted January 12, 2003 04:33 PM
I actually created an excel spread sheet to plug in tire info so that we could adjust our forks up or down to maintain the same geometry based on the tire circumference.
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vozizm
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posted January 12, 2003 05:30 PM
please share Zh
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deathpulse
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posted January 12, 2003 06:28 PM
GREAT advice redelk. Now I need to figure out how to change the fork oil and stuff. Oh boy. Good thing I'm getting a new house with a BIG garage and air compressor/tools. Now I just need to RTFM a few times and make sure I go slow...
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deathpulse
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posted January 12, 2003 06:31 PM
Anyone know of a good bike suspension tuner in the Nuke Jersey area?? I'm up north near Souther CT and NYC....
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redelk
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posted January 13, 2003 07:16 AM
DP, e-mail me at adcraft@sbcglobal.net and I'll send you my "10 easy steps to change your fork oil" with pictures. I think it's 10. Anyway, if you got a couple of bolts and a pair of tie-downs, you can do it yourself. I can also give you a few tips on recharging your rear shock. Neither are half as hard as you'd imagine. If I can do it, anyone can, I promise you.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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Ninjaman12R
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posted January 13, 2003 08:01 AM
Ahhh the Bible.......
Good stuff Sherm, that is a handy piece of info. I've still got the Mag with that section in it. When you set your bikes suspension to your needs it is like a totally different machine. Break out the spanners, screwdrivers etc., and get to crackin' fellas.  I got a lot of help from Kent and Tracy @ GMD Computrack after they did my forks. I took down several notes while talking to them but have lost the damned things. I had some excellent info concerning sag, and static sag. Oh well, back to the drawing board.
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vozizm
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posted January 15, 2003 07:06 AM
REDELK...please foward that info to me!!... vozizm@hotmail.com
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted January 16, 2003 12:17 AM
thanks pastor, I have been reading the websites you posted, very informative....I am gonna finish reading the artilces, and tha twill help me better understand the settings and how to use them to my advantage.,....will see what I can do with the info....Jim
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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