2000redrocket
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posted September 22, 2010 05:03 PM
 Edited By: 2000redrocket on 23 Sep 2010 01:04
zx12 clutch vs CR500 clutch
ok guys check out what honda gave us few CR500 owners clutch wise.
now what a zx12 friction plate looks like up to the CR500 clutch
yes it looks a tad smaller doesin't it?
  
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dougmeyer
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posted September 24, 2010 08:21 AM
How many plates are there?
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2000redrocket
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posted September 24, 2010 08:32 AM
7 friction 6 aluminum. (i can not remember if i went to steel or not. i think i did)
i wonder what they would do in the 12? i kept the old clutch plates from the big cr. are you thinking what i am?
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2000redrocket
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posted September 24, 2010 05:25 PM
well the friction from the cr500 fits in the zx12 like a glove. but the friction material is not quite as tall on the cr plate.
life is all about options. would be intresting to put one in and replace the thin one in the inside but i need to check more out. just quiorius and do not want to rip the material off. but it should hold power.
the 500 plate has more actual material with less space between the friction pads (actually there is not much room that there is not material.
what do you think doug?
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CrotchRocket
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posted September 24, 2010 05:30 PM
You have to measure the friction thickness and make up a new stack height...
Why go through all that when we already know what 2 options are best for the 12s clutch...
just my 
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2000redrocket
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posted September 24, 2010 06:04 PM
because i bumped into it stealing the springs out of it for the lock up. and i am curious.
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NOX
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posted September 26, 2010 07:37 PM
I was told that, that is where rob muzzy got the 2.0 steels........
A reputable source that we all buy parts from told me that, but not sure if it is true........
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2000redrocket
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posted September 27, 2010 12:28 PM
nox next time i think of it i will mesure everything. but the busa clutch in a friends busa he has a multi stage in has frictions that have a lot of materal mike the cr500. the kawasaki plates has the little pads. i will go down soon and mesure the steels.
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Shane661
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posted September 27, 2010 02:01 PM
quote:
I was told that, that is where rob muzzy got the 2.0 steels........
A reputable source that we all buy parts from told me that, but not sure if it is true........
1.4, 1.6, and 2.0 mm steel plates are listed as available OEM parts.
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2000redrocket
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posted September 27, 2010 02:04 PM
i wish there was a 2.2 instead of putting a 1.4 and 1.6 together.
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NOX
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posted September 27, 2010 03:30 PM
why would you need to do that?
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Shane661
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posted September 27, 2010 03:33 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 27 Sep 2010 23:40
quote:
why would you need to do that?
You mean stacking two steels?
All I can tell you is that Racheal's turbo busa went low 1.5's throwing the lever at swb using such a setup. 8.80's @ 165 mph, single stage. The setup was provided by Kent Stotz...seemed to work pretty well. 
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2000redrocket
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posted September 27, 2010 03:45 PM
yes i had or wanted to stack two steels. i am all 2.0 axcept for the 1.4 and 1.6 i replaced a 2.0 with. did not have two 1.4s.
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2000redrocket
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posted September 27, 2010 03:56 PM
Edited By: 2000redrocket on 28 Sep 2010 00:00
ok the steels (or in my case aluminums) are 1.4mm and the outer diamerer are a match. but the teeth are close but not the same.
the frictions are all but 3 at 2.96mm the outside is same diameter as the zx12 frictions.i bet with 1.4 and all cr500 frictions one may be able to make a extra friction plate clutch.
someone needs to add all the numbers up though and i am not sure what new frictions are bet they are 3.0mm cause my clutch was not shot when i replaced it.
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Shane661
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posted September 27, 2010 04:02 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 28 Sep 2010 00:03
.
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2000redrocket
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posted September 27, 2010 04:18 PM
so at 12 1.6 steels at 19.2mm
and 13 frictions at 2.96 (what mine mesure) is 38.48mm
all this is 57.68mm at top of spec.
i raced with 1.6mm steels and did not kill them real bad but with a extra plate it should share some heat load.
should hold more power with stock springs anyway with out the killer clutch springs.
the LSR guys will get one more plate of power holding.
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NOX
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posted September 27, 2010 04:56 PM
what do you mean one more plate of power?
Yeah, if you have to stack steels..., you are putting a bandaid on a problem that is supposed to be fixed elsewhere.
A lot of guys do it, and it works, just not the best way to do things.
A lot of blackbird guys had to do it, for specific reasons.
What is your reason for stacking them?
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2000redrocket
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posted September 27, 2010 05:10 PM
i wanted the stack high higher.
i did the all 2.0 steel and one less plate. i wanted the gap between the arms smaller that is all.
what do you think of a 13 friction plate 12 steel clutch for a zx12?
the one more plate of power i ment the load holding will be grater with the extra surface area of two extra plates. same springs should be able to hold more power.
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NOX
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posted September 27, 2010 09:43 PM
No, an extra steel stacked with another makes no extra holding power, unless you just add spring pressure......
More clutch surface area gets you more locking power.
It would be a good idea in a class where a lock up is not allowed, to have more fibers, in the same stack height, if you could do it....., some how, I would think you would need very thin plates, that might not hold up.
Other than that, a waste of time.
Tune the lock up like the rest of the world the normal way, and quit wasting time.
It has been proven to work.
right crotch rocket?
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2000redrocket
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posted September 28, 2010 01:57 AM
nox
are you not getting what i am saying?
i added the extra steel to get my stack hight higher. that is the only reason.
i did the math on the cr500 parts for everyone else. anyone wanting to try a 13 friction 12 steel clutch should concider this. you said more clutch surface gets more locking power so there you go.
i do not feel like i was wasting time cause i was down in the shop drinking a beer and working on something and not in front of the TV.
and as for tuning the lockup i am getting there. adding small shims one at a time best pass was a 9.51 saturday.
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Shane661
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posted September 28, 2010 04:19 AM
There is more than one way to skin a cat.
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CrotchRocket
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posted September 28, 2010 09:14 AM
Red...if you put all 1.4 steels in they will warp very quick...
Nox...with the "Muzzy" clutch set up, depending on how many passes you have made with a stock motor or a big motor you need to put 2, 1.4 steels inplace of a 1, 2.0 steel for a "STOCK CLUTCH" To prevent slip, also extending the life of the frictions but still being in spec...In other words, getting your $$$'s worth out of the frictions...
Thats what we do for a stock clutch Nox...
Thats $50 for the info...I know the check is in the mail 
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2000redrocket
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posted September 28, 2010 11:21 AM
crotch rocket i put them on the outside where my clutch usually never colors the steels with heat. it will be ok. i just need to get a 1.4 to lower it a tad.
no more test and tunes at maple grove any more. now i need to drive to cecil md two hours if i want to continue. the track was real bad last time i was there. i spun through the end after spinning through the front. all bad.
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Shane661
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posted September 28, 2010 11:53 AM
NOX gets 900 passes on a stock clutch.
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NOX
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posted September 28, 2010 02:20 PM
Yup Yup.
I just do not understand why you guys fight all that. It changes the geometry of the engagement. But, there are several things that work in different ways.
Kevin at MTC says that what I do to a lock up won't work. LOL
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