mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted January 30, 2010 10:08 AM
Shiphteeyvs. 500 hp Busa?
Shiphteey can you describe what your race with the 500 hp turbo busa was like? saw the video and it looks like initially you had him and then I guess at some point he passes you on the way to two hundred mph. When did he pass you and how far ahead was he?
Whats your weight vs. his?
It said something in the video of him running out of gear and if he would geared it for more top end he would have had less acceleration.
What would of happened if you would have spayed a 60 shot?
Last what is your weight of rider and bike?
Thanks,
I'm trying to decide if its worth building a turbo as I also have a 1070 gsx with all the fixings and I could simply add a shot of NOS to that or keep trying to lighten up my old zx12. My 12 (1287)currently weighs in at 492 lb's with approximately 2 gallons of fuel.
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
  
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted January 30, 2010 11:50 AM
What it was like? Sure. When I found out what I was up against I was like "Ehh....feckk!" I could always hold him off until 6th. I'd click 6th with 18/44 gearing and he'd come by me and was always 1 mph faster. If I went 202 he went 203, if I went 203 he went 204. We were flat out for a WHILE sometimes! 200 mph sustained running on the streets is fun, I don't care who you are.
I was putting out about 215-219hp on 2 happier dynos and 201 on 2 more realistic ones.
I would appoximate both bikes weighed near the same. I had both brakes up front, stock tank and all, the real weight savings was the upper and full pipe, no mirrors/signals/cut mudflap. Hell his wheels...his brakes...his suspension ... either was probably worth more than my bike!
His weight was maybe 200. Kinda tall, kinda built.
My weight....I'm usually in the 120s, give or take. Lightest at 112 and heaviest is mid 130s.
Do I think I could have beat him with a 60 shot....meh....probably....assuming he made no changes. But a 60 shot would have been too sketchy on stock injectors for that long of a run. Drag guys can get away with it but not many stock motor 12s out there spraying a true 60 for long distances reliably. He was undergeared and I was overgeared....but me jumping out had everybody kinda scratching their head....but when you think about it....500 hp is hard to control through the gears....sometimes less is more. I had no traction or wheelie issues...just rolled the fuck out. Overall I think I did pretty well given my budget set-up. If I ran him NOW and he made NO changes it wouldn't be close. I've picked up aero, HP, significant weight reduction and most important but always overlooked...experience.
As for the lightening the 12 vs nitrous on the 1070...you will spend less and be much "quicker" with the nitrous gixxer....that being said there is more wind protection for normal sized people on a 12R so there may be more "faster" potential....and if you have the $$$ there is quite a bit of weight to lose. But a lighter naturally aspirated big bore 12R will probably get beat by the nitrous big bore gixxer IMO. Nitrous usually beats lighter....usually.
That being said, there are some pretty quick naturally aspirated 1287s that clock some high MPH. I'm sure you know who ;-)
A.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted January 30, 2010 04:00 PM
 Edited By: mrsantafe on 31 Jan 2010 00:09
How fast were you going at the top of 5th gear with 18-44 set up against the Busa?
My zx12 has NOS with a dry spray bar for those few difficult situations and weigh 200 lb's. It put down 183 hp on a 250i (stingy)dynojet and 194 on another dynojet but it wasn't on a 250i and without NOS. My 12 has made 290 hp (NOS) on a fourth gear pull on the dyno but the duty cycle was pushing 96%. and a/f ratio at 7700 rpm with pc maxed out was 13.5 and around 13.0 everywhere else, on stock fuel system. Which i didn't like of course.
Seeing your video makes me wonder that its not the hp the bike makes but how much hp can be put down. I believe you when you say 40 hp is about all you dare to use on races like that.
Ship i'm assuming you didn't have a bigbore in your bike at the time of this video and if so a bigbore with a 40 hp shot might have made enough difference.
Last, what if you had OD gears like I have in my bike. You might be able to gear it shorter for better acceleration and still have the same top end.
My 07 1070 Gsxr is set up for road racing (180 hp on a dynojet 250i) with strong upgraded internals. I wonder how this bike would do if it were slammed, geared correctly, and a 40 shot as well? I've got a few pesky stockish (internal wise) turbo Busas making 250-300 ish hp that are slammed and have lockup set ups. I don't as a rule street race but i figure your experience might be able to shed some light on the subject.
I was very impressed how your bike did vs. the big hp Busa on the street.
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted January 31, 2010 07:29 AM
How fast were you going at the top of 5th gear with 18-44 set up against the Busa?
----I'm going to say roughly 188 or so only because thats the highest I've GPSed the bike in 5th with that gearing...don't remember if I tagged the rev limiter in the vid below. Around 30 seconds I chase a 10R while staying in 3rd. Upshifted twice but its hard to see the tach cuz of the glare...see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpjG_GgQ_ec
My zx12 has NOS with a dry spray bar for those few difficult situations and weigh 200 lb's. It put down 183 hp on a 250i (stingy)dynojet and 194 on another dynojet but it wasn't on a 250i and without NOS. My 12 has made 290 hp (NOS) on a fourth gear pull on the dyno but the duty cycle was pushing 96%. and a/f ratio at 7700 rpm with pc maxed out was 13.5 and around 13.0 everywhere else, on stock fuel system. Which i didn't like of course.
----Almost 300 HP sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. There was/is a guy here NOS1290 who would spray about 90 at Maxton, you can ask him how reliable his setup is and how he's now on a Busa. 96% duty cycle....I've skated that close but you won't find me pushing that close anymore, it isn't worth it.
Seeing your video makes me wonder that its not the hp the bike makes but how much hp can be put down. I believe you when you say 40 hp is about all you dare to use on races like that.
Ship i'm assuming you didn't have a bigbore in your bike at the time of this video and if so a bigbore with a 40 hp shot might have made enough difference.
----I've always been stock displacement. A big bore would have helped for sure however unless it was built right it is my belief that higher compression and thinner cylinder walls aren't suited for big nitrous and/or extended durations on even a moderate shot. It can be done, no doubt but again I think you start naturally approaching a limit. If you are going to attempt to push to a certain widely accepted limit on the 12R platform I suggest you at least purchase a datalogger and start seeing what is really going on with your bike, both for safety sake and increasing your general knowledge of what is actually going on vs what you may think is going on.
Last, what if you had OD gears like I have in my bike. You might be able to gear it shorter for better acceleration and still have the same top end.
----Tough to say, sure I could have geared for much quicker acceleration....maybe throw a 17 on the front and a stock rear ... I would have pulled him harder through the gears but in 5th or 6th I may have had a harder time pulling big gears on a 40 shot....I suppose this is where busting out a calculator of some sort could help. For sure bigger 5th and 6th gears would have come in handy at say...Loring.
My 07 1070 Gsxr is set up for road racing (180 hp on a dynojet 250i) with strong upgraded internals. I wonder how this bike would do if it were slammed, geared correctly, and a 40 shot as well? I've got a few pesky stockish (internal wise) turbo Busas making 250-300 ish hp that are slammed and have lockup set ups. I don't as a rule street race but i figure your experience might be able to shed some light on the subject.
----Well, much of ANY race is largely determined by a number of variables. From your questions it sounds like you are really focused on the HP side of the equation, which is natural. But I think there is more to it than simply HP or power to weight ratios. Certainly the TYPE of run (roll-on vs standing start), distance run, wheelbase, gearing, weight, aeros, etc are just as if not even more important than HP. Generally speaking, the higher the HP of the other guy, the harder time he will have down low, holding all other variables constant, right? So in a shorter run you may be able to jump out and hold off a theoretically faster bike like a slammed Turbo Busa with a lockup. The big question is how long are you trying to run them for? If its for a mile, give or take, most everyone I try and find to run either chicken out of those type of runs for whatever reason or do quite poorly. I would be willing to bet if you had never done a single 9/10ths style run or whatever type of run you want to get involved with regarding these Turbo Busas you speak of you'd probably not do as well as you could have if you had just practiced. Do you know what to gear for? Do you know how much to spray? When to spray? What gear you usually spin or wheely to? THESE are the things that can make or break you. If they have an inherent advantage on paper you can certainly win, but you need to have a strong grasp of where you will do well and possibly negotiate the terms in your favor.
I was very impressed how your bike did vs. the big hp Busa on the street.
----Thanks, I appreciate it. I tried my best and was happy with the results that day...
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted February 12, 2010 11:42 AM
This is a classic example of how important rider and setup are.
Shiphteey made the most of his setup...the Busa rider...well...he didn't. Far less than 500 hp would have handled the situation...with the proper rider and setup, that is.
Shane
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted February 12, 2010 06:38 PM
Hey thanks mang. You know I always give it my all, win or lose I'm always down.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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BALTIMORE410
Expert Class
Posts: 456
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posted February 23, 2010 01:23 PM
Edited By: BALTIMORE410 on 23 Feb 2010 21:26
dam yo you the dude that raced that 500 hp busa on youtube.......ali all b.s. aside when we was in iraq every sunday we would watch racing videos (( legal and illegal)) dam man all this time i never knew that video was the reason why i picked up both my zx12 everybody round here and back home in baltimore ride busa's....
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Bobbydigital17420
Expert Class
Posts: 142
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posted February 23, 2010 06:21 PM
whats the link for the video???
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted February 23, 2010 06:42 PM
B-More...good to hear. Glad you stuck with the 12R, they are the last of a dying breed but so much potential if done RIGHT. Busas are everywhere, I wanted something different.
As for the vids:
Vid of me running against the Busa:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNj8vR869co
Vid of me videoing the Busa vs Vette:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaLjr3_Y-FI
____________
Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted February 24, 2010 03:40 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 24 Feb 2010 11:40
quote:
You know I always give it my all, win or lose I'm always down.
Is that so??? 
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