supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
|
posted September 26, 2009 09:50 AM
CLOSED LOOP SOFTWARE ALL READY IN ZX12R?
It looks like if you hook up an 02 sensor to unused plug connector the bike will adjust air and fuel in real time..
Here's an old post from RR
What I have found so far in the ZX-12r ECU is different There is a lot of code dealing with these Input Signals to Memory lines (ISM). So far more than 12% of the total code and I find more all the time.
I have mapped the 93c66 Serial EEPROM locations. There are 3 groups of 4 values. These are cylinders 1-4 low, 1-4 med, 1-4 hi.
The ISM plug has 7 lines
COS1 ECU pin 15 ( R/BL wire)
COS2 ECU pin 16 (R/Y wire)
COV1 ECU pin 24 (W/BL wire)
COV2 ECU pin 25 (W/G wire)
COV3 ECU pin 34 (W/BK wire)
The BR/BK wire is Sensor circuit ground
The BL/W wire is Sensor circuit power (+5V)
COS1 is the ENABLE line when switched to ground
COS2 is the WRITE line when switched to ground
COV1 is mixture setting, any value between 0.5V and 4.5V is valid. A middle setting of 2.5V is 0 change to stock. One side of center is richer, the other side of center leaner, I haven't figured out which way is which yet.
COV2 is Cylinder select:
0.85V < Cylinder A < 1.45V
1.45V < Cylinder B < 2.15V
2.15V < Cylinder C < 2.90V
2.90V < Cylinder D < 3.45V
I call them A-D because I have not actually followed the code to the point I can say that Cylinder A value is associated with injector/coil 1. It could be 4.
COV3 is Lo, Med, Hi Select and ??
This input has six valid settings but they seem to work in pairs. I call them Near, Middle, Far indicating their distance from the center setting of 2.5V
1.60V < Near < 2.20V OR 2.80V < Near < 3.45V
0.95V < Mid < 1.60V -OR- 3.45V < Mid < 4.10V
0.30V < Far < 0.95V - OR- 4.10V < Far < 4.70V
Near appears to be LOW rpm range, Mid medium rpm range, and Far, Hi rpm but I need to confirm that. I also don't know what the bounds of the RPM ranges are.
The other thing I found is that it appears when the ENABLE line is grounded you can use these inputs to tweak the mixture while the bike is running. All these values will remain until you reset the ECU (turn the key off)
If the WRITE line is grounded the current COV1 value (mixture) is written to the Serial EEPROM. Where in the map it is written is determined by the settings of COV2 (Cylinder) and COV3 ( lo/med/hi)
I have to say I would prefer the Suzuki system. Here it appears you have to do everything 4 times, once for each cylinder.
BTW, every time a value is written to the Serial EEPROM a corresponding counter value is incremented and written to the Serial EEPROM. When that value gets to 10,001 you are not allowed to write changes to that mixture value anymore. In other words you only get to push the write button 10,000 times for any particular cylinder / L M H combo.
The quickest way to answer most of the above questions would be to build a box to interface with a bike and try it out. You would quickly learn which is richer and which is leaner. and by putting a scope on the injector which setting was which cylinder.
Of course the biggest question is what am I going to call it. KawiBox? No, to generic. I wish I knew what the CO in COS and COV stood for. CO-Box. Of course if I was the Egomaniacal kind of person Blueford thinks I am I would name it after myself, especially since my last name starts with B.
Hmmm, I think I will call it a BlueFordBox
   
|
supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
|
posted September 26, 2009 04:52 PM
 Edited By: supra5677 on 27 Sep 2009 00:53
UPDATE:
I went today and bought a bosch 5 wire wide band oxygen sensor. It puts out the required 0 to 5 volts that the ecu calls for.
Read Below:
COS1 ECU pin 15 ( R/BL wire)
COS2 ECU pin 16 (R/Y wire)
COV1 ECU pin 24 (W/BL wire)
COV2 ECU pin 25 (W/G wire)
COV3 ECU pin 34 (W/BK wire)
The BR/BK wire is Sensor circuit ground
The BL/W wire is Sensor circuit power (+5V)
COS1, COS2, and The Sensor Circuit Ground Wires are for ground,
The remaining COV1, COV2, COV3, AND Sensor Circuit Power are for power.
I believe the software for a closed loop system is in the cpu..
I'm going to make a harness, modify the wires, make a harness and plug it in. I think it will allow the bike to ready a/f ratios in real time.
supra
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted September 28, 2009 05:09 PM
does anyone think this is actually going to work?.....
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
|
posted September 28, 2009 06:20 PM
I'm the only one who thinks it will work. Ridge Racer thinks the bike is looking for a mixture adjustment device. I think its looking for an oxygen sensor. For the first time ever I hope Ridge Racer is wrong  We'll soon find out what that factory plug is for.
|
Marcelo
Novice Class
Posts: 33
|
posted September 29, 2009 05:33 AM
Man I hope this works!  .
____________
2001 ZX-12R w/ Akrapovic Evo, PCIII USB, Ignition Module, Quick Shifter, BMC Race Filters, Ivan's Kleen Delete Kit, Racetech Goldvalve/Springs, Scotts Damper, Goodridge SS Lines, Pazzo Levers, Corbin Seat, Helibars G2, Throttle Meister, Double Z Quick Throttle, GIPRO X Type.
|
tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
|
posted September 29, 2009 10:32 AM
Didn't RR build the box that used these inputs to make corrections to the fuel table? Like the Yoshbox on Busa? I remember him building it and also testing on the test bench...
|
tshultz
Zone Head
Posts: 556
|
posted September 29, 2009 01:32 PM
quote:
does anyone think this is actually going to work?.....
I hope so
|
2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
|
posted September 29, 2009 01:47 PM
i was ging to try the box but we found the a1 only was able to tweek the low end only
|
RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
|
posted September 30, 2009 05:12 AM
To be wrong about this I would have to be so monumentally wrong that I would have to hang up my hackers hat and retire.
Supra, I appreciate your enthusiasm for thinking outside the box and trying new things. Your willingness to let me flash your ECU back in the early days was a great help to the whole project. I have to say however I really think your going out on a limb with this one.
For what your saying to be true that would mean that not only the 12 but also every Denso equipped bike all the way back to the '98 TL1000R have the same capability because they all have the exact same software in them as it relates to processing the 'Yoshplug' inputs. This includes some later European models that have narrow band 02 sensors.
I have already figured out and successfully demonstrated what this plug is used for so your also claiming it has two different uses. In all the Denso units that do use 02 sensors the heater control and sensing hardware are built into the ECU so the sensor plugs directly into the ECU. Your saying Denso designed secret code to work with a 0-5V signal from an external 02 sensor converter box.
No offense but I don't see anything to back up your conclusions except wishful thinking.
____________
|
supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
|
posted September 30, 2009 09:04 AM
Ridge:
I don't think you should hang up your hackers hat and retire. That would be a great loss to all of us.
What I am saying is that I see a different interpretation of the data you pulled out of ECU.
1. All wide band ecu's put out 0 to 5 volts.
2. I don't think you can designed a fuel injected bike initially without an oxygen sensor.
3. I don't think denso designed any secret code, rather voltage is voltage.
What you could do is help me make a harness so I could plug it in and see what happens
I'de pay you of course...
supra
|
supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
|
posted September 30, 2009 09:17 AM
Another Post From RR:
The 93c66 on the other hand allows to you to just write a single byte of data over the top of the existing byte any where in its memory space. And once written you could unplug the ECU from power or remove the bikes battery and plug it in a 100 years later (literally that's what the data sheet says, 100 years retention. Don't ask me how they know) and the data would still be there.
I traced out some of the code for the Input Signal to Memory analog lines and found they end up stored in the 93c66. On startup the ECU checks to see it the 93c66 is blank. If it is the ECU writes a set of default values into it. The default values are written in 4 groups (one per cylinder?) plus a few extra (engine wide?) values. Then all these values are copied to RAM for faster access.
These 93c66 values can be changed via the Input Signal to Memory lines. It appears one of the analog inputs is used as a selector switch. Its value is checked for certain ranges and then a function is performed accordingly. For instance if the value is between 1-20 do this, 21-40 do that. etc. Another analog line is stored in memory. Which location in the 93c66 it ends up in depends on the first value.
It looks like one value picks which cylinder you want to tweak and the next one how much you want to tweak it.
This raises several obvious questions:
Could you 'tweak' it enough to richen it up across all cylinders to adjust for an after market exhaust?
How do the tweak numbers effect the A/F calculations across the RPM range?
Also what is the tweak feedback mechanism? Maybe they just stick some vacuum gauges on it at the factory and tweak it to balance the four cylinders. Maybe they stick a special pipe on it at some engine test stand with an oxygen sensor in each cylinders header pipe.
|
01silverZX12
Parking Attendant
Posts: 7
|
posted September 30, 2009 10:14 AM
Ridgeracer-
I've been trying to get in contact with you through your hacking board email address. I'm trying to join the league of hacked ECU's. Still offering assistance?
I have the same SN on your board or email me: oduengr A T yahoo
|
supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
|
posted September 30, 2009 04:11 PM
Doug Meyer weighs in:
Sorry,
I got interrupted and wasn't done....
Of course, you need the A/F data to build an original map on an "open
loop" digital fuel injection system. The manufacturer uses an
instrumented system with an O2 sensor to "build" the original maps
which are loaded into the stock ECU. You can adjust these up or down
a few percent with something like a Power Commander. This is fine if
you are not far off from the original A/F needs, but if you've changed
a lot of stuff you need to re-establish the A/F settings with new O2
readings, which is why you have to actually put in a sensor and hook
it to a device that can read the A/F (like an Innovate).
|
supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
|
posted September 30, 2009 04:12 PM
Doug Meyer weighs in again:
Well, it's certainly possible that it would work just by hooking up
the sensor, but it's a long shot.
|
supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
|
posted October 05, 2009 07:17 PM
I'm stuck:
I traced out wires from the ISM plug:
blue/white +5v
white/blue COV1
white/green COV2
white/black COV3
brown/black GROUND
red/yellow COS1
red/blue COS2
on the oxygen sensor:
Red= Heater positive
White= Heater negative
Black= Signal Wire 2.5 Volts
Gray= SIgnal Ground
Yellow = Pump Chamber Circuit 3v
I ordered the male side of the ISM plug and then the connector stuff found on active board.
Now which wire goes to which?
|
lgm118icbm
Novice Class
Posts: 48
|
posted October 06, 2009 01:49 PM
Coming from an efilive background:
COS = Custom Operating System
COS2 is for a valet mode.
____________
Costa Mesa, Ca
03 ZX-12R
03 Z-1000SC
04 ZX-6R
98 Concours
|
RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
|
posted October 08, 2009 03:07 PM
Edited By: RidgeRacer on 8 Oct 2009 23:10
This is all covered in my other posts but for a quick review....
COS1 and COS2 are 5V TTL logical inputs pulled up to 5V by an internal 5k resistor. (S is for Switch)
Grounding COS1 Enables fuel trim adjustments. Grounding COS2 writes any adjustments into the NVRAM so they persist after you turn the bike off and remove the trim device.
COV1 - 3 are 0-5V analog input signals. The input voltages are divided into zones and used as mode selectors.
COV2 voltage determines which cylinder is adjusted.
COV3 voltage determines what throttle / rpm (High:Med:Low) to adjust.
COV1 is the mixture voltage which adjust the selected cylinder at the selected range +/- 8%. 2.5V = 0 adjust, greater than 2.5 adjust fuel rich, less than 2.5V leans fuel.
I've already figured out that this connector is for factory fuel trim just like the Suzuki 'Yoshbox'. I built my own box. Tested it out and proved its function
Here is a schematic of how the CO pins are wired internally inside the ECU.
Here is the schematic of the box.
WHAT SUPRA SUGGESTS WILL NOT WORK
First you would need a wideband O2 controller. A box that all your Heater wires, sensor and pump chamber wires plug into and then gives you a nice 0-5V output signal dependent on AFR.
And lets say you wire it to COV3 the mixture adjust voltage input. The software as written only lets you adjust one cylinder at a time. What do you do about that? It also only lets you adjust one RPM Throttle range at a time also. What do you do about that.
The center voltage of 2.5 is 14.7 AFR on the O2 sensor. 14.7 is not the best power AFR on these bikes. Also the code is written to offset the mixture in a fixed open loop way. Say the mixture is lean and the voltage goes up to 3 volts. The would cause the mixture (in one cylinder) to richen up about 2%. This would lower the AFR and voltage which would remove the 2%. It wouldn't work
A real autotune software would see the fuel lean and add a little fuel then wait, still lean? add a little more. When the AFR was at the desired level it would stop adding more. It would not remove all that it had added as in the above example. It would be a cumulative adjust over time not a fixed adjust by voltage.
So lets review.
1) There is no way to just wire a sensor into the ECU. Nothing to run the heaters, etc.
2) Even if you had a o2 sensor/controller with 5V output the ECU mixture input only allows adjustment of only 1 cylinder at only one rpm range at any given time.
3) Even if you solve 2 the software will not function as a closed loop mixture adjust.
4) Even if it did adjust in a closed loop manner the target AFR would be 14.7 at all rpms and throttle settings.
____________
|
supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
|
posted October 14, 2009 08:37 AM
let me ponder this over.. There has to be something we can do to enhance the capability of our bikes. There should be a way to do this and be cost effective.
|
supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
|
posted October 16, 2009 08:25 AM
RR can design an ecu better than any manufucturer. The problem is the 80 to 100 hours of work for R and D. This will be about 3200 to 4000 dollars. I was thinking even real time data logging programming with ignition and fuel maps. I'l get back to you guys..
supra
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC