worm~hole
Needs a life
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posted October 24, 2002 01:18 PM
IN CUSTODY
...speaking as a private citizen (and not a reflection of my professional life and what I represent)...it figures that if these two are indeed the suspects, they'll get all kinds of protection and have all kinds of rights intact...
...hey, not to wish the SWAT guys unnecessary time in harm's way, but I wished the suspects had the firefight with these professionals...it could've saved us and especially the families of the victims the inevitable circus of a protracted trial...y'know what I mean?...
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“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
  
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted October 24, 2002 01:19 PM
...oops...this should be in the bikeland forum...sorry 
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“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
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posted October 24, 2002 01:36 PM
this whole thing hasnt made any sense. nobody's profile fit what appears to be the actual situation. they were so smart with the whole thing until they went and demanded money, at which point they were stupid enough to supply a bank account that could be traced back to them and were stupid enough to be caught. this almost makes me believe these arent the guys. hope they are the ones tho. don't need this protracted no more. as much as i hate the 24/7 coverage, i will be interested to hear the final outcome, primarily the answer as to WHY.
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ZHooligan
Moderator
Post Whore Extraordinaire!
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posted October 24, 2002 02:49 PM
I have the same thoughts. I would hope they have been caught. But I have my doubts. I hope I'm wrong.
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Wildman
Expert Class
I only look confused
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posted October 24, 2002 08:16 PM
I read on MSN that the rifle they siezed matched something like 11 of the shootings on ballistics, so it sounds like they really do have the little creepy bastards.
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DaveInDaytona
Pro
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posted October 24, 2002 08:30 PM
I know what you mean wormy.... time, money, and resources spent to make things "fair" for the poor "suspects". Wish they would have been caught in the act and dealt with properly instead of the circus that's going to start now. I feel for the families of the victims that have to deal with this being drug out for years.
On the same topic I would like to know what all these "experts" in the media do when there is no crisis. 24 hours of stupid worthless people analyzing what the cops said, what the sniper is doing, what the people victims are doing, and all of it of no merit other than make people more interested in a crisis.
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted October 25, 2002 06:28 AM
 Edited By: worm~hole on 25 Oct 2002 07:29
...a "JOB WELL DONE!" to the personnel of all the agencies and to the citizens who helped capture these mentally deranged individuals...
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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BlackMandingoWarrior
Expert Class
Posts: 320
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posted October 25, 2002 07:10 AM
I hope like hell these are the perpetrators, I've got family living in the Baltimore-Washington metro area!!! I've spent a lot of time checking on my family and worrying about their safety. The fact that the car they were caught in had been modified to shoot from suggests to me that they got the right ones. I just hope this doesn't give some other crackpot any ideas!!!
The media will no doubt continue with the assinine type of coverage thay always do. I'm glad I don't watch the news.
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BMW
The QuickSilver Ridin MoFo
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ddpete3
Pro
Posts: 1189
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posted October 25, 2002 09:46 AM
Edited By: ddpete3 on 25 Oct 2002 12:39
no offense wormy, but in my opinion, the cops did dick in this case. It was all citizens. It was the neighbor in Washington and the guy at the rest area. Kinda makes you see how worthless the FBI, NSA, secret spy planes are. I've come to realize that there is no superior intelligence working for these agencies, they just have better toys.
That whole mess with arresting 2 illegals making a phone call instead of following them and then arresting them a 1/2 mile down the road, giving away your hand that you're watching pay phones in that area...that was pure genius.
The thing that really annoys me is all of the agency officials patting themselves on the back. When your dog runs around in circles chasing his tail, do you say "good boy"? No, you laugh at him.
Then again, could be that my view is driven by the misinformation media.
But, I AM ecstatic that the guys were caught.
All my friends in DC went out last night and celebrated by getting gas. Oh, and they got gassed too.
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TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted October 25, 2002 02:54 PM
Begs the question as to why?
1) How did they come by a little known Cherokee fable (duck by the noose)? They didn't come up with this, they (snipers) were told to say this. Why did the sniper(s) want this stated over the national media? Is it a trigger to other groups?
2) They were smart enough to rig up a car to do this, with the appropiate equipment but were stupid enough to give out details about themselves in the end?
3) White truck? Decoy maybe?
4) Why were they in Alabama in the first place to shoot the 2 women? Maybe in a camp and this was their first initiation action?
I still think this was a test run orchestrated by a group, and not a couple of nuts that met up with each other and shows signs of very well orchestrated crimes but were stupid enough to give clues just to get caught without a fight. This is not the end of it, in my opinion. I CERTAINLY hope I am wrong, but at the very minimum, there will be copycat morononic acts just like this, and the very most, small cells will start doing this around major metropolitan areas. Can you tell I have a small conspiracy fiber running thru me? Whaddya think?
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted October 25, 2002 04:05 PM
i think you are dead on personally
them being islamic is in my opinion NO coincidence.
the wtc failed to grind the country to a halt, but they are capable and willing to do anything to disrupt our freedom.
every bit of freedom that we give up to 'enhance safety' is a BIG win for them.
our freedom is what they abhor. our ability to choose. it is THAT they are attacking.
and winning too.
the problem is that their goal is domination. it is control. it is power.
power, no matter why they ahve it, is still victory to them. if they have the power to make people stay at home instead of going about normal business they have won.
what happens when people are too afraid to go shopping? people stop shopping except for necessities. this has negative affect on the economy. another point that these folks would love to see, an american economy in shambles.
all of this leads back towards the mideast again. we cannot let this event shape our lives in this manner. we MUST not give them this victory. but the bleeding liberals and the passive sheep that are the american people will let this, too, slide and be added as another victory for the anti-american people out there.
#1: seems spot on for a trigger
#2: arrogance is a vice, and can lead to stupidity. no good doing osmething like htat and not getting credit for it in some folk's eyes. arrogance and ego
#3: or just some poor schmuck who saw the shooting and hauled booty out of there, scared, pissing himself
#4: i think the guy was from louisiana, and i guess that would be on the way who knows.
 
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bagster
Zone Head
Posts: 630
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posted October 25, 2002 05:46 PM
what makes me sick is that they probably wont even plead guilty.
Just like alot of the other "guilty" people who go before the court.
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted October 25, 2002 11:50 PM
Edited By: worm~hole on 26 Oct 2002 01:10
no offense wormy, but in my opinion, the cops did dick in this case. It was all citizens. It was the neighbor in Washington and the guy at the rest area. Kinda makes you see how worthless the FBI, NSA, secret spy planes are. I've come to realize that there is no superior intelligence working for these agencies, they just have better toys.
...well, you may think the cops didn't do dick, but I disagree...they did the best they could with what 'toys' they had ie. surveillence equipment, firearms and, and protective equipment (just in case) when they knew where to look and who they were dealing with, but this time it was ALSO the citizens' assistance, the citizens' eyes that became a much needed and valuable part of the package to find and capture these individuals...
...in this day and age, citizens are often force mulitpliers and we in the law enforcement community absolutely need them in many incidents...there's only so many cops to go around looking for people...
...you can be assured that the law enforcement communinities are going to take this apart and learn from this...we didn't have a 'magic bullet' for this, it was frustrating for all, cops and citizens alike....I'm just glad they were captured and no one else was hurt or killed...
...maybe you've figured it out by now, maybe not...its usually our laws that bogs things down when we go hunting for bad guys and evidence...we have to abide by our laws even to look for and capture suspects and evidence...if we don't follow the rules of engagement, so to speak, our laws permits or mandates that the badguys to go free and evidence to not become not admisable in court, effectively making prosecution and punishment null and void...
...there are LOTS of things that the cops have to keep in mind as they deal with incidents (especially when its constantly evolving) and as they try to capture suspects and collect evidence...lots to think about even when they're forced to kill a suspect on the spot...
...lots of times, law enforcement actions are reactionary because, for instance, we have to give the badguys an opportunity to give up what they're doing...that's why at times it appears as though the cops aren't doing anything (but they are...behind the scenes)...
...if you think that just because the cops have 'nicer toys', thus the cops SHOULD be able to find badguys RIGHT NOW!, then I'd say you've been watching too much fictional cop shows...in this day and age, none of us have the 'magic bullet' to 'take care of business' the way it appears on a TV drama or a three hour movie, but I our forensic technologies are making it easier and faster to gather evidence so we can find, link, prove, etc. a suspect and bring him/her to justice and punishment...
...when the cops have no leads and it comes to looking for suspects in a large area, and in multiple cities and states, no doubt the citizens' eyes are one of the important components during the search for clues...
...but what are you going to do once we know where to look?...in capturing these individuals, the cops did more than dick...dick
...as fantastic as it may sound, we don't want citizens shooting it up with the badguys and getting hurt or killed once the badguys are found...it was a team effort...once again, a "JOB WELL DONE" to all involved...
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted October 26, 2002 06:19 AM
Edited By: TeamSpeed on 26 Oct 2002 07:23
I have to agree with worm. This was a team effort, and kudos to the law enforcement groups for primarily not handing out details to the media. I think this is perhaps the #1 factor in shutting this down in 3 weeks vs 3 month or maybe even longer. I entirely believe that law enforcement, 8 out of 10 times, hands too much info to the media, only to hurt their cases. In this case, the suspects' details were handed out in good time, and it worked by using the media and the public. This does not happen that often.
This would be a good example of a massive law enforcement effort with only minimal data leaks, and I think this will serve as such in the future.
This crime is probably one of the more perfect crimes, if you think about it. If the suspects hadn't tipped their hand or if law enforcement handed out details willy-nilly, this case probably would have gone on for months. I cannot think of too many other crimes as near to perfection as this one. Silenced sniper fire from within a non-descript vehicle from hundreds of feet away, getting away on an interstate exit with no witnesses, and no apparent pattern of victim selection or area. It is scary to think what might come out of this. It will also be interesting to see what new procedures will be created in the law enforcement area for any such future crimes, not to mention TOYS, which we all love. Did I mention I used to hold a top secret clearance for a major areospace company, so if you want to talk about hi-tech toys... wow. If only I did not have to worry about guys in black suits showing up at my door...
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
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posted October 26, 2002 06:29 AM
just remember.....they were "only following orders"..how many others will decide to follow bin laden's orders too?
"kill all americans in any country that you can do so"
jihad and all that crap.
remember, americans/western culture are an anathema to the islamic extremists. they beleive they are mandated by Allah to kill kill kill ALL who are not islamic. there is no peace involved, no conversion, just kill.
and before i get flamed, i DO realize there are plenty of islamic folks who are NOT of this particular bent, and are nothing more than normal people whose beleifs fall in that affiliation. BUT remember there IS a standing 'order' out there for any fruitcake with the guts to follow it.
personally i think we all need to be more vigilant
remember cops are not mind readers...
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ddpete3
Pro
Posts: 1189
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posted October 26, 2002 09:55 AM
I still think all the agency leaders are going to get sore arms from patting themselves on the back.
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted October 26, 2002 12:29 PM
Edited By: worm~hole on 26 Oct 2002 13:49
quote:
I still think all the agency leaders are going to get sore arms from patting themselves on the back.
...I don't think so...the agencies have already stated that if it weren't for the media broadcasting the car and plate, and the citizen at the rest-stop reporting the location of the car, we would still be searching for the suspects...
...I'm sure it was the last thing on the citizen's mind, but I hope the citizen gets some kind of reward and I'm sure that person's name will be an intergal part of this investigation...
...the only clown-ass thing that I don't like going on right now is the battle between the feds and the states and who should have primary responsibilty for prosecuting the case...its incredible, a sad state of how things can be behind the scene, and frustrating, too...
...the agencies and some of their talking heads will get a ton of exposure as the this whole incident unfolds, but then again, that's just the way it is, and not by choice...
...imho...
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted October 26, 2002 10:17 PM
Edited By: deathpulse on 26 Oct 2002 23:19
I gotta side with wormie on this one too - I mean, what the heck are the "cops" supposed to do? The cop to citizen ratio is so low, that low life scum sucking sub-humans like the "sniper" guys (it makes me SICK to hear people label these idiots as snipers - hell, sniper is a DISTINGUISHED title in some circles - these turd-burglers took relatively simple shots from a steadied surface with plenty of time to line up. They were NOT snipers - just jerkies with guns) can "hide" in the background of citizenry rather well. I'm not advocating more cops, rather, simply using common citizens as "force multipliers" - hey, why CAN"T we help out the good guys?
As a parting thought - I just hope that this doesn't impact the gun laws, THAT would be moronic.
Keep on showing us how to perform police duties with honor and dignity Wormie! (and if its not too much to ask, help get the jerky LEO's a new job? ok ok ok I know you aren't superman =P)
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted October 27, 2002 03:59 AM
...nah...this is just ddpete3's way of sayin' that he, too, wants to play with all the 'neat toys'...I'll even give him my favorite toy: my rock and a string....
...hey, ddpete!...shave that goatee of your's and join up!...then you just might get to play with some of the 'neat toys', carry a big gun, and drive really, really fast to the veggie joint!  ...
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted October 27, 2002 08:11 AM
after bush's scary comment after pressure, of saying that perhaps a ballistics registry mightnot be such a bad idea, i'd say that us law abiding citizens will catch the brunt of it as usual.
it is OUR fault thigns like this happens, if it wasn't for all us gun nuts they(guns) would already be illegal and this would never have happenned.
i guess the public at large has been swallowing the anti-freedom rhetoric for so long they beleive that tools are evil, and people are good, and only by having a gun does someone do bad things.
it is the same thing as saying that cars cause car accidents. "well if there weren't any cars..."
or liquor causes drunkenness (like they are doing around this place, liquor byt he drink referendum, and people are putting wrecked cars all over town to show that liquor=death)
it is that same misguided and perverse logic that allows people to smoke a cigarette, and get part of the settlement against the tobacco companies. eventhough guess who profits the most from tobacco sales? the US GOVT. i thyink the tobacco companies make less than 20 cents per pack. the rest is tax...
another favorite is thelottery thing here too. it is ok for them to have raffles, but NO no lottery. it (more democrat rhetoric) profits off the poor... all you poor folks will be even MORE poor after the lottery starts up.
and i agree, some people who have no SELF control will end up spending more of their welfare money on lotto than on food and necessities. but it is not hte lottery that causes people to be stupid.
inthis day and age, if someone does something bad, it must havebeen something around that person. they were abused, they were downtrodden, they were poor, they they they had a *gasp* gun!!?!?!? the GUN did it..
id say bushmaster is gonna take a hit for 'providing' these terrorists a weapon. let's get away from calling them snipers, as was said, they were anything but. i can tell you first hand what an 'expert' marksmanship medal in military means..... (oh yeah wouldn't want to take the blame off the military for training this super-sniper in his trade of killing civilians at home depot)
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted October 27, 2002 10:19 AM
i don't know any details as to what all i sinvolved, but i like the idea of a ballistics registry. if they can trace any bullit back to its owner, it should seriously slow down the rate of guns getting into illegal hands. this deserves a bit of explanation. first off, someone isn't likely to use their own gun in a shooting since it can be traced to them. So people will have to get guns illegally. Not I assume this happens when someone buys a guy from a person who acquired it legally to begin with. Thing is, if u keep coming across guns that were "stolen" from the same damn person, u'r gonna know they are selling them & not losing them. So u crak down on the illegal seller. Well that should slow down illegal sales a helluva lot. Of course, this is all dependant on the assumption that the majority of ilegal guns are gotten this way. If most illegals were smuggled into the country to begin with, then a registry ain't gonna help much.
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted October 27, 2002 11:46 AM
...if I were in charge of the judicial system, it'd be very simple...the convicted get only one...ONE!!! appeal (cuz' I'm fair)...the defense attornies get to pay for the court's costs for the appeal (for stalling and wasting my time...and let's see how confident they really are about proving the innocence of their gulity shithead of a client)...and then...
...JUST LET THE SYSTEM EXCECUTE THE FULL FORCE OF THE SUBSCRIBED PUNISHMENT ON PEOPLE WHO UNLAWFULLY KILL OTHER PEOPLE WITH GUNS...
...no deals, no bargains, no life....the convicted is just terminated...
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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DaveInDaytona
Pro
Posts: 1696
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posted October 28, 2002 10:13 AM
Interesting info here http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/jamuhammadD1.html
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