hdp
Parking Attendant
Posts: 6
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posted March 28, 2009 08:36 AM
That cant be good!
Howdy!
Heading overseas for help on this one  i did a search and found nothing unfortunately. My pride and joy has developed a knocking sound that seems to be coming from the top left hand side of the mil ( TPS throttle body side ) it only makes the noise when hot while cold all is well and it seems to be coming from the throttle body... i think. I know its hard to help with noises but i would appreciate your advice before i take the bike to a dealer and have them rip me new one :|
Here is what I think it is; is it possible the that the butterfly in the far left tb is worn, creating the noise as it lets air through? as the noise seem so be in sync with the injector squirt...
The bike performs well and still pulls like a steam train, its just the noise and its driving me nuts! I hope its not bearings... but the sound is too high up in the engine. but i cant tell forsure cause of the fairing. will probably have to take that off in the meant time jsut to make sure
Really appreciate your help guys!
Awesome forum BTW!!
  
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johnnnyboy
Expert Class
08 Concours 14
Posts: 164
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posted March 28, 2009 03:40 PM
I thought my zx 7 had a problem up top with valves but that up top sound turned out to be a rod bearing. If it where then she wouldnt last long. Hard to say could be a bent valve too. Maybe its nothing that major but if its knocking cant be good.
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whitehendrix
Zone Head
fails!
Posts: 757
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posted March 28, 2009 05:51 PM
cam chain slap?
bump the CCT out one click? (.020")
guessing the throttle side of the bike is also the TPS side.. which i think is also the side the chain tunnel runs up?
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted March 29, 2009 12:58 AM
cam chain is on the right side as are the throttle cables , tps is on the left. tensioner is automatic.
i dont have any good ideas  maybe the header is loose?
can you try to describe the knock better? is it metalic, sharp, dull, a hiss?
'
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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whitehendrix
Zone Head
fails!
Posts: 757
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posted March 29, 2009 07:30 PM
real quick.. as far as the CCT being automatic.. i know that, but that don't always mean it works!! 
i';ve had a few bikes come into the shop with complaints on needing a valve adjustment.. on this one 07 6-R, i went thru them all 4 times each before thinking of the "kawi click"
i bumped the CCT out 1 click and not only did the noise go away, but gas mialge improved and so did power!! (as claimed by the customer)
those CCT's don't always do their job
thank you tho on the clarification scott man!!
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted March 29, 2009 09:16 PM
hmmm ill keep that in mind  , ive never heard of an issue like that.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
hdp
Parking Attendant
Posts: 6
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posted March 30, 2009 02:19 AM
 Edited By: hdp on 30 Mar 2009 10:38
thanks for the input guys!!
checked the headers and they look tight, its faint dull knocking (like knocking on wood), i only hear it when standing still not when moving and the bike is idling it seems to speed up with revs but is sounds like it goes away over 4K rpm not sure as things get a bit loud (engine noise, exhaust). Tthe bike still pulls like a mofo tho... i really hope its not rod or main bearings
Somebody told me about piston 3 on the ZX12s being an issue anybody aware of this? something to do with the rod bearings getting play and it ends up causing valve bounce. happened to the quy who told me, he was doing 170mph when he dropped a valve on piston 3!!!!
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whitehendrix
Zone Head
fails!
Posts: 757
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posted March 30, 2009 08:20 PM
damn!!
that would suck.
if you can get the bike apart.. a quick "test": of sorts for a rod is to run it at idle and pull the coil pack power for the offending piston.. or the suspect one.. now, on the 12 it'll throw a code, as it will on any other EFI bike, so i'm hoping it works on yours..
anyway, if the amount of knock cuts in half, you've just found a rod bearing issue.. (do this on all cylinders..) if theres no change, it's valves.
you're unloading the road from the power stroke, therefore cutting that impact down and taking 1 knock away per cycle.. you'll know a rod knock tho.. it's a nasty, loud sad sound of bronze death.
a light ticking sound is normally cam chain slap or valvetrain noise.. hell, my 7 sounds like a fuggin diesel.( maybe noth THAT bad...lol) . it's perfectly fine and in tune tho!! thats just the way some of em are.
now, being your noise emanates from an upper corner and only does it while hot, i would honestly rule out a rod right off the bat.. not a professional opinion, but just my .002... i like your worn butterfly idea.. wiggle it!! or, if you think you can get away wit it, get a can of computer duster.. that shit is awesome for detecting thermal faults.. how? turn it upside-down!!
you'll expell the propellant, which boils below 0*F, by doing this.. a quick shot in a suspect area will contract and cool the offending part and prove whether it's indeed themal or not. just be wary on cast metals like your T.B.
i don't know what else really to say.. i am just going of a general knowledge of bikes.. i have never worked on a 12-R
couldn't tell ya on the #3 rod problem.. i've heard that only on the ZX 11 and a few cases on the 9-R.. don't recall reading failure on a 12.. just transmission woes.
good luck!
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
|
hdp
Parking Attendant
Posts: 6
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posted March 30, 2009 10:20 PM
Edited By: hdp on 31 Mar 2009 06:48
thanks whitehendrix, that is some awesome advice!! i will definitely give it a shot if the problem is still there, cause here is what i did:
i got a set of T-boddies for a good price, so i swapped them out last night cause my bike was idling very rough and i had a suspicion that it was the TPS. put everything back together, idle was nice and smooth now so let the bike idle for 5 min till the fan came on and the noise was gone... so i checked the butterflies in the old TB but there was no play... strange i know.
ill have to take it for a ride, put the engine under load and see if the noise returns ( hopefully it does not)
I will keep you guys updated as i progress!
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted March 31, 2009 12:13 AM
thats a really good trick on the rod bearing issue whitey
as far as the rod bearing issue goes(in general for a 12) the main problems are:
1 its oil level sensitive
2 the way oil drains back from the head
1: easy solution. fill it the proper amount and keep it there! 
2: the oil can only drain from the front of the head. a non issue for 99% of normal driving if you keep the front wheel planted. if you like doing extended wheelies, the oil can collect at the back of the head in the inlet cam area and you may "run out" of oil in the oil pan if you are running the oil level lower than normal. if this happens and you get air into the system, you can damage bearings. remember, theres only about .0024 in of clearance and if it has air in it, metal touches metal. filling that clearance with oil is essential.
a lot of guys are under the impression a higher flow oil pump helps solve bearing problems, but the normal pump is quite capable as long as it has oil to pump! its not a bad idea to replace the pump rotor to ensure the pump is working at 100% on a rebuild, but no need to replace it with a "better" one. i modified my pan to hold extra oil, and i put some baffles in it to keep oil from sloshing around on a drag strip launch, and the stock pump has done a great job, and my bearings looked good on teardown after a season of abuse
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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hdp
Parking Attendant
Posts: 6
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posted March 31, 2009 10:12 AM
thanks kscott, that helps clarify the issue regarding rods a bit, i always check my oil and make sure that its optimal. i like usind motul ester 10w-50 have you guys used it before/can you recommend something better (dont want this to turn into a 'what oil is better thread' just want some examples of what you guys use overseas)?
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted March 31, 2009 12:56 PM
motul is a good oil(i think the e-tech? is popular), but for street driving i would use 10w40. i used royal purple in my bike last season. (mostly racing). i used the 5w20 Racing 11 oil. my bearing looked good on teardown. for the road i would go with the heavier oil, but no heavier than 10w40(what the manual calls for). probly the XPR 10w40 if i went with rp. im thinking about trying motul 300v or amsoil dominator in my bike for an expirement.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
whitehendrix
Zone Head
fails!
Posts: 757
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posted March 31, 2009 06:31 PM
i haven't gotten a personal fav as of yet.. i sell everything at my shop, so.. eh.. it's still up in the air for me.. we primarily stock all repsol stuff and some motul stuff here and there.
it's all very close tho in quality i think.
repsol is one of i think 2 companies or so (i think..) that oversees EVERYTHING iththeir oil.. extraction, refinement, bottling.. everything.. so theres oil is under their control at all times.. helps with the quality control.
hopefully you got that issue sorted!! mighta been a lose butterfly flap or something stupid... it usually is with noises like that.. it's either something detrimental and extreme or something silly and simple.
as far as the TPS tho.. i think you lucked out with just throwing one on.. normally you have to initialize them.. i know on alot of other bikes, quads, ect you have to close the butterfly to get a base voltage, then start cranking it around til you get a manufacturer-specific value on your meter in the feedback loop, then crank it down and set idle value.
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted March 31, 2009 09:18 PM
i know one time i moved the tps and didnt know to sync the PC with it.... talk about run bad! the power commander was off by 20%tps, and with a muzzy map, tuned to (try to)get rid of that "over cammed" area.... well 20% was a huge diff. hold it at about 10% for a 7000rpm launch and it was fluctuating up and down from 5000 to 9000. what a nightmare untill i figured that out(RTFM lol)
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
hdp
Parking Attendant
Posts: 6
|
posted March 31, 2009 09:40 PM
Edited By: hdp on 1 Apr 2009 05:46
thanks guys, the reason i use 10w-50 is because it gets quite hot here in SA (summer is usually around 86 F) and the 10w-50 will not get too thin at the higher temps not so? would you use royal purple XPR for daily/street use? i think i would in my mind it should offer better protection not so?
re-sync the TPS? my repair manual dos not say anything about that (the official kawasaki repair manual) do you guys have a different version?
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted March 31, 2009 10:15 PM
I only had to sync the power commander to the tps after moving it, nothing on the tps.
i would definately use royal purple xpr 10w40 for street use, in hotter temps even.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
hdp
Parking Attendant
Posts: 6
|
posted March 31, 2009 10:38 PM
ok cool, i need to service my bike in about 500km will put that in
sheesh you guys have been giving some great advice, i really appreciate it!
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted March 31, 2009 11:19 PM
any time
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
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