biggmoinc
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Posts: 747
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posted February 11, 2009 07:35 PM
Yes, another clutch question
I have no idea what it is that i have in my 2000, i was told it has a muzzy kit, but i need to know Cause i read that i cant use the oem clutch pack wit a modified muzzy hub, Or something like that. What i need to know is what n how do i tell which Hub, Basket do i have? The basket is silver, it looks like tthe online pics of a falicon basket. The online pic of the muzzy basket looks gold in color. If i am wrong let me know. How can i tell which kind each is? ANy pics would help me out. I just pulled the old clutch, it looks like the stack height has the top of the hat just even or if not a little inwards from the (fingers) dont know the name of it. Is it true that the top of the hat should stick out a little further than even? Thats what i got from another post on here
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
  
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KZScott
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posted February 11, 2009 08:57 PM
 Edited By: KZScott on 12 Feb 2009 05:00
as long as the stack height is ok(measure it!) and the angle on the clutch puller is ok (see the manual) you will be fine running either muzzy or oem stuff. i run a combo of both to get proper stack height for my lock up. the biggest thing is getting the angle correct. if your stack height is too low the angle is wrong and it wont grab right, causing accelerated wear on parts. I run an MTC basket which i believe looks very similar to a Falicon. Dad runs a Muzzy. all 3 are great baskets.
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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biggmoinc
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Posts: 747
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posted February 12, 2009 08:54 AM
what year oem clutch should i use, i c ther is a difference n the 00 model n the 02 n up models. since i have an aftermarket basket does it matter. N why does the muzzy setup have less plates.
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
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KZScott
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posted February 12, 2009 09:03 AM
use the 02 + frictions, supposed to be slightly better. the muzzy setup uses less because they use 2.0mm steels instead of the stock 1.6mm steels
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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biggmoinc
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Posts: 747
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posted February 12, 2009 09:06 AM
the schnitz racing site doesnt show the 2 rings n ther oem kit
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
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biggmoinc
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Posts: 747
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posted February 12, 2009 11:29 AM
sorry to b a pain, but could someone take a pic of ur clutch basket through ur fill cap hole. just to give me an idea of what it should look like as a reference for my stack height. lookin for a bargain for 02 oem clutch, any suggestions. my local dealer wants 280
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
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Stuart Racing
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N.H.R.A . Dragracing.
Posts: 999
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posted February 12, 2009 11:41 AM
Just ordered a Muzzy clutch pack(steels an fibers) $189.00 to the door....Best deal I could find....
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almost_les
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Posts: 590
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posted February 12, 2009 12:57 PM
quote:
sorry to b a pain, but could someone take a pic of ur clutch basket through ur fill cap hole. just to give me an idea of what it should look like as a reference for my stack height. lookin for a bargain for 02 oem clutch, any suggestions. my local dealer wants 280
stack height needs to be between 56.8mm and 57.6mm. you cant just eyeball it, you gotta measure it.
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KZScott
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posted February 12, 2009 02:16 PM
Edited By: KZScott on 12 Feb 2009 22:18
measure the stack height(no not go by eye), get it in spec, then adjust accordingly to get the proper angle on the puller. the manual shows the correct angle(usually toward the mid to high end of the spec). you can adjust stack height by swapping different thicknesses of steel plates, or even add an extra steel plate beside another one.
i run the thick muzzy steels, and if the stack height gets too low(but the fibers are still above the service limit), i take out a 2.0 and add 2 1.6s (acts like a 3.2)
reuse the anti chatter rings
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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biggmoinc
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Posts: 747
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posted February 12, 2009 03:55 PM
Thanks fellas for all the help, i just ordered 02 oem clutch, i got them for 230 wit a gasket, I m going to go wit muzzy springs cause the schnitz springs were very stiff, mayb cause i used all 6. From what i read muzzy springs will be fine. I will let u all know how it turned out. The reason for changing the clutch is cause i have a 240 tire kit, with a 1270 n headwork n the clutch n 3rd or so, begins to slip at high rpms. I somewhat solved it before by putting schnitz springs in it, that is til they got soft again. I have adjusted the lever n at the bottom almost to where the bike will move when put in gear just to c if it would slip, n it did. I know the tire weight n heavier load on the clutch is more but damn, it dont make that much hp. Once again thanks guys n i will let u know how it turns out
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
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twista
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posted February 12, 2009 07:49 PM
Edited By: twista on 13 Feb 2009 03:50
break down and buy a cheap caliper at home depot,, oil the plates lightly and them lay them down on a granite countertop or a sheet of glass,, let them over hang a little and take a reading,, you want to be as close to 57.6mm as possible and your all good!
I use 6 Brock springs,, maybe thats why my left arm looks like popeye LOL,, work FN Great!
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" When in Doubt, There is no Doubt !"
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keith
Expert Class
Posts: 155
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posted February 13, 2009 09:36 AM
I use Kawasaki 2mm steel plates in my Muzzy lockup - part number 13089-1124
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almost_les
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Posts: 590
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posted February 14, 2009 12:10 PM
quote:
break down and buy a cheap caliper at home depot,, oil the plates lightly and them lay them down on a granite countertop or a sheet of glass,, let them over hang a little and take a reading,, you want to be as close to 57.6mm as possible and your all good!
I use 6 Brock springs,, maybe thats why my left arm looks like popeye LOL,, work FN Great!
don't forget to take out the anti chatter rings when measuring. they'll throw the reading off and make the stack seem thicker than it really is.
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biggmoinc
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Posts: 747
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posted February 21, 2009 01:42 PM
Just got my clutches today n i m confused. I received 10 fibers, 11 steels. THe clutch i pulled has 10 steels wit 11 fibers. To add to this confusion the overall stack height is way different. The new clutch is way shorter than the old one. The old stack measures 55mm which is too short as it is, n the new one is 50.9, n thats with stackin the 3 steels together
This is what came wit the new one
FIBERS
(9) 13088-1143
(1) 13088-1131
STEELS
(11) 13089-1123
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
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biggmoinc
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posted February 21, 2009 01:45 PM
Nor did any fiber come wit the inside diameter wider than any of the others
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
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biggmoinc
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Posts: 747
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posted February 21, 2009 02:47 PM
the one on the right is the new one, notice the 3 plates near the top stacked together, this is just to show what came with it n overall stack height
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
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biggmoinc
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Posts: 747
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posted February 21, 2009 02:51 PM
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted February 21, 2009 07:49 PM
your old stack is using muzzy 2.0 steels(you have a muzzy hub so you probly had the kit put in at some point) your new stack is using the 1.6mm steels. and yeah you didnt buy enough fibers to use the 1.6mm steels.
muzzy clutch kit : click here
a stock stack uses the following
Qty. 11 -- 13088-1131 fibers
Qty. 1 -- 13088-1140 fiber
Qty. 11 13089-1123 steels 1.6mm
(12 fibers 11 steels)
a muzzy stack uses the following
Qty. 10 -- 1200-1124 2.0 steel
Qty. 10 -- 1200-1131 fibers
Qty. 1 -- 1200-1132 fibers
(11 fibers 10 steels)
the muzzy stack uses less total plates because of the thicker steels.
i have no idea why you bought a set of 1.6mm steels when you had a set of 2.0s. unless you warp a steel plate you just use it over again and just replace the frictions. since you have what you have, re use the fiber that goes with the anti chatter rings. re use the 2.0 steels (if they are not warped. colour is fine as long as they are flat) and use the new frictions. tell me what the stack height is with that setup. if it is low take out one 2.0 and replace it with two of the 1.6s. if its still low repeat untill the stack height is ok. i reallt doubt it will take 2 tries
let me know
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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NOX
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Posts: 3745
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posted February 21, 2009 10:00 PM
Man, this is way to complicated ............
No wonder guys get all screwed up.......
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KZScott
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posted February 21, 2009 10:28 PM
i honestly dont see why its so hard to get stack height correct? the info is there. look at the manual, read the item description for the Muzzy pack....the only trick is adding extra steels to fine tune the height
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
KZScott
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posted February 21, 2009 10:30 PM
oh and dont put that jug of 15w50 in, run 10w40 like it calls for
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
biggmoinc
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Posts: 747
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posted February 22, 2009 06:45 AM
You guys are awesome to deal wit, thanks for all ur inputs. it is appreciated. When i bought the oem equipment like nox said i assumed it would come in and go right in wit no adjustments, its cool though, i will just reuse the steels that need be to get the stack right, n use the new fibers. i had no idea to mis n match to get it right, duh right? I have done everything to this bike so i learn as i go. except the paint, rebuild of motor (2X), lol. 240 tire puts some stress on the clutch i'm sure! When i opened it up i didnt know what the hell i had in there but i knew the basket was not stock. Didnt know what clutch or hub, only the previous owner said he thought it was muzzy, but he also didnt say the bike had been laid down n cracked the frame nor did he say the piston rings was leakin. I had this thing for almost 4 years (projectbike). The engine builder put the 15w50 in there so i assumed to keep using it but if 10w 40 is the way to go that is what i will do. I heard some oils tend to allow the clutch to slip also, Ne way i got a 2 year old daughter that wont allow me to turn my back for 2 min so i will try to put them in tomorrow night, i will let u guys know what happens, thanks again, u guys r the best
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
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biggmoinc
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posted February 22, 2009 06:57 AM
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
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biggmoinc
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Posts: 747
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posted February 22, 2009 09:22 AM
I used 10 fibers it come with, 1 old, n 1 that inside diameter is wider than the rest for the ring n spring. a total of 12 fibers
I used 10 1.6 steels n 1 2.0, a total of 11 steels,
the stack height measured was 57.4 without the spring n ring, so i hope this will do it, i will c tomorrow. I have 6 brock springs also
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
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KZScott
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posted February 22, 2009 09:51 AM
Edited By: KZScott on 22 Feb 2009 17:54
that height should work fine and allow for some wear before you need to touch it again.(check the angle on the puller to make sure), but if you slip the clutch a lot to get rolling, i would use the thicker steels since you have them allready (the Muzzy combo) they take abuse a bit better and are less likely to warp. not everyone has a lockup setup like NOX so some of us need a little added protection or we fry the stock setup.
btw great pics 
heres a page from the manual that shows angle of the puller
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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