frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted September 12, 2002 08:03 PM
crashing & it's effects on u
what psychological effects do u experience after crashing? i'v hear the odd story about people giving up riding after a small scare (not even a crash, jsut a close call or something), and others who have crashed countless times & broken tons of bones, but still keep riding. yesterday's 80kph or so getoff was the second time i'v crashed, and it was definitely worse than the first 60kph lowside i did a couple years back. but it has done nothing to put me off biking. it has actually made me more confident & less scared of crashing, tho i will still be more careful of such situations in the future. i guess it's like facing ur demons: i survived a significant crash with no serious injuries. now thats not to say that if i were going 200 instead of 80 that i would still be ok (i would definitely have been dead), but still it removes the fear for me.
but beyond the setting in or waning of permanent fear, is the immediate effects. a group of three riders on tour bikes who were obviously more experienced took the time to tell me to sit down for 10 or 15 minutes cause shock will set in & i will be very very shaken, so as not to be able to walk. altho i felt quite fine, i took the voice of experience to heart & left the bike etc to go stand in the shade. i have heard of the same happening to others. they r all hopped up on adrenalin so they feel fine but when it wears out they go nuts. but 10 minutes past w me all on my own, & i still felt fine. hours later with my bike towed & the police dealt with & me at my buddy's house sitting down, i still felt fine. i never experienced any shock, any adrenalin withdrawal, nothing. i'm less scared of crashing than i was the day before & the incident most certainly does not bother me. the only thing that got to me a bit was that the more time went by the more angry at myself i became since it was a stupid move, not someone else's fault and not a lack of skills. just stupid. perhaps if i was seriously injured it would be different, but i'm not sure. so what's everyone else's experience?
and here's part 2 (shoudl really be part one) of the question: what's ur feeling during the crash? i suspect this may be related to the whole aftershock thing. both times i'v crashed had been perhaps the calmest moments of my life. i wasnt really scared even tho i was considering the possibility of sliding into a car; i just kept trying to look where i was going & get myself in control, tho i honestly didnt have a chance to do so consiously. i dont really remember what i saw as i slid either. as soon as i came to a stop i jumped up & told all the gaping faces in cars that i was ok & apologized for the scare. i could definitely feel the adrenalin since i was kinda jumpy & revved up, but not scared and not... well, anything.
   
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BigJ12
Expert Class
Posts: 107
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posted September 12, 2002 10:08 PM
Years ago I crashed very bad with a 1986 1000r ninja. I cracked my shoulder blade in half, seperated the same shoulder, cracked my sternum, broke four ribbs, one punctured my right lung, lung collapsed.
I had no other injuries, I was wearing a helmet that I'm sure saved my life. It did not turn me off of riding in the least. If anything it made me be a better rider. The accident was a single vehicle accident and all my fault. I was going way to fast in a forest preserve parking lot and couldn't hold the very tight turn leading out. I ended up highsiding at about 45-50mph.
I couldn't wait to get back on my bike, it faired much better than me. Only some right side fairing damage, mirror support, levers, pegs, signals, etc... It ended up landing on me so I took most of the impact. I remember as soon as I was able to move around without too much pain I hopped on her (as is) and let her rip! I got up to about 130mph to see if she tracked straight and had no wobbles. As soon as I recovered I repaired the bike, rode it for the rest of the year then sold it.
As far as the accident it's self. I don't remember too much, but I do remember laying there on my back, I got out from under the bike (it was only half on me when we finly came to a stop) I flipped up my visor with the only arm that would move and I swear I heard children laughing and giggling, the trees were blowing in the breese and as I lie there I felt very calm....then the pain set in and I was back to reality, but it was very weird.
As the old saying goes, "what dosen't kill you, makes you stronger"
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"Blessed mother of acceleration, don't fail me now"
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jason370
Zone Head
Posts: 589
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posted September 12, 2002 11:25 PM
 Edited By: jason370 on 13 Sep 2002 00:31
1995 i have my brand new zx11 for all of 6 weeks. one morning i decide to ride my bike to work (wall st) and after waitng at a red light I get a 1/10th of a second...jump on the changing green. to my dismay some dude in a mazda626 was gunning it through the intersection to beat the red light that just changed against him.
needless to say this was one of the few battles that the zx11 would lose, myself along with it. i got slammed into the pavement at approx 40mph. then my shoulder and hand got run over. i jumped up immediately, started pacing, totally jacked up on adrenaline. then i looked in the middle of the
intersection and saw my bike and walked right over to pick it up for some reason. thats when the world went black and i passed out from the excruciating pain due to the fact that my dislocated shoulder along with my snapped a-c joint was trying to pick up a 600 pound bike.
i was never nervous about the idea of getting back on the bike. as a matter of fact i couldn wait to fix it and get back on. main reason being that i know that if i were a safer and more alert rider, i would have prevented this accident. my mind was on work and jumping the light. it was not on the cross traffic that regularly blows through yellow and just turned red lights. i should have known, actually i did know but i let my mind wander. my fault.
ever since i have done my best to be alert to potential danger. i find that when i am most likely to crash is when i get overconfident and begin to be casual. low speed is where this is most likely to happen to me. the other day I was at an intersection and looked right , then left then right....and then paused for a second. without checking left again i began to let out the clutch and in the corner of my eye i saw a fender. i slammed on the brakes and came withing an inch of getting slammed.
very rare is the time that the unavoidable happens. its the stuff that we can prevent that happens most in my opinion. sounds like you could have avoided htis, guess thats why you are pissed. i was pissed too when i got slammed.
oh yeah, from the moment that i saw the mazda to the moment that he hit me took about 1/2 second, but it totally freeze framed for me and i saw my life in a slow motion slide show in my mind. probably 40 frames before i got hit.
jason
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sagot
Zone Head
Posts: 779
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posted September 13, 2002 01:06 AM
enough about you - hows the bike?
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12RPilot
Pro
Posts: 1094
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posted September 13, 2002 05:51 AM
Most of the time I have had a split second to cuss. After a verbal "Aw Shit" I'm struck by the oddity of relative quiet when seperated from the bike. Kind of a surreal araul void. Then I go into my "pissed as hell at myself" mode. That's when I usually do something stupid like punch hard objects, if I'm able to move. The older I get, the less I react to my anger. After my motocross years, I'm pretty much used to wild crashes.
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If you aren't an AMA member, you're part of the problem.
NESBA #209
http://www.bikepics.com/members/12rpilot/04zx10r/
 
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Zx23rr
Expert Class
Mahogany Bomber Pilot
Posts: 242
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posted September 13, 2002 06:41 AM
If I may be so bold and state, even if it is the other guy's fault, it still you who is ultimately at fault. No matter what. You can try and explain everything away, but you are the one that ends up hurt or worse. Even if you are stopped at a light and someone runs you over from behind, you should have prepared for it. My motto is that the cages etc - just don't see you.
So with all that said, if you end up bailing, and its your fault, it seems like the people you admit their fuck-up are the ones that climb right back on. The ones who blame everyone else seem to be the ones that are afraid to get back on board.
just an observation made over the years. Of course there is always the spousal input that also helps some decision making.
Later.............................../
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted September 13, 2002 07:13 AM
I still have a fear of sharp right hand turns after nearly becoming a hood ornament after going into the other lane and ending up in a ditch on the other side :/
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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Zx23rr
Expert Class
Mahogany Bomber Pilot
Posts: 242
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posted September 13, 2002 07:57 AM
That is the classic survival instinct of looking at the object in your path. (if that was the senerio)You see in a right hander, the vehicle "crosses" you field of vision and therefore one has a tenency to "look" and target fixate. Some level of panic sets in and you can stand the bike up and go WIDE. This is what I experienced years ago and spent days analizing that survival instinct. So I found a right hander with traffic on it and rode through it a few times :-) In short time I found it much easier to go through and almost totally ignore the opposing traffic only because of realizing what was happening.
Later........................................./
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sagot
Zone Head
Posts: 779
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posted September 13, 2002 01:49 PM
Ya don't target fixate. Look were you want to go, like the open areas between things like cars, trees and such. Fish crashed because he LOOKED at the gravel instead of just crankin it over more.(rebuttal?) Every time that Iv'e crash it's because Iv'e over cooked my tires. Every time. Five times. On pavment that is. Dirt doesn't count.
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EastBayDave
Needs a job
Posts: 2245
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posted September 14, 2002 05:53 AM
After my third "hit & run" I spend 8 weeks in a cast wondering if I should ever ride again. But I figured three times is a charm, so the odds are in my favor. After all, I know lots of worse riders who have NEVER been hit by a car; & I'm one of the better riders around. I can't get hit a 4th time....can I?
WRONG! Couple months after getting back on the bike, a little old lady in a Honda Accord hits me head on (the sudden U-turn from a turnout; I thought she was parked-turns out she was lost.) As I went under the front end of the car I guess she hit the gas instead of the brake, & did a burnout over the bike & my chest; breaking most of the bones in my upper body.
Next thing I know; I'm by myself in the middle of nowhere & can hardly stand up. She left me for dead, another hit & run!  To make a long story short...
I almost gave up riding. This was my 5th heavy altercation with a car, 4th "hit & run" & I've had it. Spending the next 6 months getting slowly healed; & finding some of the injuries are now permanent & constantly painful, I quit. I didn't ride again for six months. I figured next time I'd be dead.
Alas, the draw of those backroad twisties was too strong; & I rebuilt the bike eventually. I only rode 5-6 times over the next 2 years, I was just too paranoid. But eventually I bought a ZRX & got back into it. I'm glad I did! My love of riding will never go away I think, at least, until I can't pull myself aboard a bike anymore...
Like my old riding friend Bert, on his 87th birthday he bought himself a new SV650 last year. This year at 88 he's still putting around the twisties with it. I can only hope I make it as far as him...
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Enjoy the ride!
02' ZRX1200
00' ZX12R sold
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Zx23rr
Expert Class
Mahogany Bomber Pilot
Posts: 242
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posted September 14, 2002 08:11 AM
The way I see it EBD, you have 4 lifes left....
Later.................../
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted September 14, 2002 08:37 AM
damn EBD!! thats quite the run of bad luck! i'm not so sure that i would keep riding if i went thru that. my experience convinced me that i can crash but not get hurt. urs proved quite the opposit. what gets me tho is the hit n run part. how the fuck can people do that shit?!?
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EastBayDave
Needs a job
Posts: 2245
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posted September 14, 2002 09:39 AM
Ya know what's weird, 8 full seasons of roadracing in the AFM (3 practices & 3 races a day, or 6 times each day on the track w/8-10 laps each), along with trackdays, dragracing, endurance racing, etc. I never really got hurt except one big bail at Sears (broken foot) that was (I think) rider error.
On the street, I've almost been killed by cars numerous times. I am terrified on the ride to & from the twisties, but when up there I still really enjoy riding curvery. Getting there & back is a bitch! I've even thought of getting one of those "Airvests" (www.airvest.com) 
Don't sweat it man, put your bike back together no matter how long it takes; & get back out there. Look what's happened to Wilson, myself, & others. It could be a lot worse dude...
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Enjoy the ride!
02' ZRX1200
00' ZX12R sold
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted September 14, 2002 11:42 AM
yeah, hence the reason this isnt bothering me at all. but i wonder how things would change were i lyin in a hostpital bed with broken bones right now. i gotta admire the gumption of wilson especially. to go thru such a serious accident with such dire consequences & immediately talk of gettin back on a bike, thats real spirit.
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CharlieTuna
Novice Class
Posts: 42
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posted September 15, 2002 04:14 PM
My only accident was this past April. Was riding one of my '85 Ninja Gpz900s. I took a corner too fast(decreasing radius) in an area that I was not familiar with. I left the road and managed to get the bike upright. At this point I had gotten my speed down to 30mph or so(from 80ish). I am watching what's happening and thinking 'hot damn, I'm gonna ride this out. Not that bad at all.'
That's when a rock, hidden by tall grass entered my life.
I remember almost all of it. The front wheel hid the rock hard. It stopped me in my tracks, sorta. I remember flying over the bars and landing on my left side and then my back(this part was very peaceful, in slow motion, and quiet).
My next moment is finding myself on my back and wondering what all the noise was. Turns out the Gpz was still running. That's the sign of a damn fine bike. So, as I am reaching over to shut it off my buddy gets back to me.
He says 'Schmitz that was the coolest accident I have ever seen!' 'Good job'
I asked about how it looked and he tells me:
'You were going a little hot but it looked like you would pull it off. I thought that you would just ride on. Next I see the bike do a little flip action and you flying forward and landing around a bush and a bunch of tall grass. I thought crap, this is really going to suck and how are we getting back home.'
'I pull up though and I can't believe it! You're worried about the bike and trying to shut it down. You were a mess.'
So I get up and start walking around. I help him get my bike upright and back to the road. A bunch of body damage, bent shifter, tweeked forks, and one of the seals on the head was a little pushed in. While I am getting myself together he starts making some field repairs. He gets the seal set right, gets most of the body tightened up with some duct tape, and unfortunately while trying to straighten out the shifter snaps it off. After about 20 minutes we start to get our act together and he says that he thinks we could ride the bike home. I look things over, take stock of how I feel and say 'let's give it a go'. I do make it back safely, my body took about a month to recover. My whole left side was a huge bruise. You know, the kind that reminds you constantly about how you messed up.
I learned a bit that day. I stopped trying to blast through as fast as I could go. I still went quick, but my goal wasn't to be as fast as I could be anymore. I started to just enjoy the ride. It has contiued like that ever since. I still enjoy riding, but now I enjoy working on the bike and then taking it out for a spin. A couple of friends of mine that still run as fast as they can wonder what's wrong with me and think that my accident somehow messed me up because I don't bother trying to run as hard as they are. I'll just let them take off and catch up whenever they slow down.
My accident changed my priorities significantly. I now enjoy a lot more of the little things.
Once we got home we had a chance to look over everything better. The bike ended up as I described. What we didn't see was my helmet. Apparently, I must have hit another rock as I landed. On the back, right on the center, about 2 inches from the edge was a 1/2" hole, with a crack that ran about 7 inches over the top of the helmet. That, really shocked me a bit. I used to only occasionaly wear my helmet and gear, now I always wear it. No doubt, that helmet saved my life, or a life paralyzed.
I'll fix the Gpz sometime. Probably this winter. But for now, I'm going to enjoy whats left of summer and ride the ZX-12R.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted September 15, 2002 09:54 PM
I honestly think yer in denial.. if you really were not effected by this crash then you would have jumped at the opportunity to continue riding the season out on the garbage bike... would cost you no more than 15bucks and it's good to go... I dont buy the money thing fer one bit.....
that;s my 2$ werth and I'm stickin to it...
back in the saddle? yer spooked...
hey... that's okay.. shit.. I couldnt take a left hand corner werth a shit fer 2 seasons after I toasted my GSXR1100... it's all in yer head.
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ddpete3
Pro
Posts: 1189
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posted September 15, 2002 10:33 PM
I got a little spooked after that chick hit me last month. Held off riding...actually affected my ability. Just went riding this morning and now am in Chicago....I miss my bike. The little scare goes away....what usually goes through my mind in that instance is this: "F**k, this is going to cost a lot of money"
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted September 15, 2002 11:37 PM
naw fish, fraid yer off on this one. it's late in the season anyway, the garbage bike just cant compare to the 12 (obviosuly) and mostly it'd mean insurance on another vehicle. i lknow it'd be cheap, but it'd still be like $70 a month, & right now thats more than i wanna spend if i dont ahve to. if it were still aug i'd jump at the offer. besides, there's not much to b scared of. i didnt get hurt. i think if i had broke something or got some serious raodrash i would b spooked. but all this proved to me yet again is that i can crash & walk away from it just fine. prolyl a bad lesson to learn frankly 
but i was effected in one way. i sure as hell aint gonna lose my patience & make a dumb ass pass ever again, & to be honest i will proplly slow down a touch on streets like the duffy, cause i saw what happened to the bike & know how easily i coulda slid off the road too. hell, i was only doin like 80 when i went down. considering how much time i spend at 160, i'd hate to think what would happen if i crashed at that speed on a road like the duffy. so it will effect my riding, but it hasnt spooked me.
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Zx12RNinja
Novice Class
Posts: 59
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posted September 16, 2002 04:00 AM
I seen God once
I did see my entire life pass in front of me one time. I was launched from a RM250 top gear WOT and hit a man hole, Front end stuck in hole, And I went over the bar's. I was in the air so long it was strange. I seen vacation's with family my Mom and Dad and Good thing's we all enjoyed as a family.
I thought for sure I was going to die. I broke both ankle's and about 20 bone's in my feet. I stood up after I landed and fell back down when I became dizzy.
A passerby seen the crash and thought for sure I was dead, I talked him into kick starting the bike and giving me a push off. Since clutch lever was broken. I rode home, Had to shift gear's with my hand, My foot was too swelled up move, And After getting cast's I snuck back on bike two week's later.
Crashing does it bother me? Yes, Do I still ride fast? Yes, Am I afraid? No
I've never had another crash like that one again. Good thing too, I might not survive it. I'm pretty sure I had other injury's but they only checked my feet, I was still stunned when I arrived at hospital and was questioned.
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Lead, Follow, Or get the hell out of the way.
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lou_zx12r
Expert Class
One Day at a Time
Posts: 196
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posted September 16, 2002 07:49 AM
my foolish ways
Well I have been riding for some time (about 20+ years). My first car was a bike. And like some of you I've had my share of stupidity and bad luck. I got hit by a drunk driver while stopped at a red light on a kawasaki ltd 440 hard enough to flip and roll completly over the car before hitting the pavement. As if that wasn't enough he thought he hit a park bike and figured he could get away so he stepped on the gas and ran over the bike again. That was my first experience. Next came the accidents that totaled a kz550, gpz550, gpz750(twice) several gpz 900's, a couple of gpz1100's a friends suzuki. I don't know I don't keep count any more. Yes they were mostly due to my follish "young" ways and no I never got hurt more than a sprained ankle, I'm very thankfull for my quick get offs! Well now I ride much the same but with more commonsense and intelligents rather then take un-necessary risks just to see if the odds can be beat.
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2000 ZX12R 40shot
2012 ZX14R
2009 Concours 14
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