Fasttimez
Novice Class
Posts: 59
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posted November 29, 2008 06:12 PM
05' ZX12R Questions
I have recently aquired a virgin 05 ZX12R bone stock with only 3,000 miles on it, I'm no rookie to the modification/aftermarket game but there are some things that need to be cleared up for me. I've found out that the top speed limiter is controlled by my speedometer not the ECU, the speedometer sends a signal to the ECU when the bike is in 6th gear telling it when it is going to fast, so an Ivan's TRE or a Bonneville box won't work on my bike, what to do ? Second the KLEEN air system on my 05 is controlled electronically not by vacuum, by deleting the system completely and unplugging the smog control pump the FI light comes on, what to do ? I've been riding and modifing bikes for 15 years now, but this is my first Kawi, why Kawasaki made it so hard to get around things on the ZX12R's made after 03' is beyond me, any help with these 2 subjects would be greatly appreciated. Oh, mods to my 12 so far are full Akro carbon exhaust, BMC race filters, 17 tooth front sprocket, Ohlins rear shock, lots of carbin fiber goodies, lowered 1 1/2 rear and 1 inch front, Puig race windscreen, Corbin seat, Speedo healer.
It has been dynoed in 3 different shops all within 2 hp of each other, my numbers are 173.69 to the rear wheel with no Power commander and my A/F ratio is dead on the nuts at WOT and alittle rich at cruise, seems wierd to me that a stock ECU can compensate for filters and exhaust or maybe it's just that the Kleen air system is giving a false reading to the dyno about my A/F.
  
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted November 29, 2008 10:26 PM
The ZX12s run rich and with an Akrapovic pipe, without a PC it runs very well...
Ive been telling people for a while now that the 12s dont need a PC!!!
Wish I can help you about unplugging the smog pump, dont know about the Cali 12s...
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted November 30, 2008 01:08 AM
the kleen system must be plugged to get a real AFR reading. I believe that you can replace the smog pump with a resistor to fool the ecu into thinking its still there. measure the resistance of the pump and choose accordinly. let us know if it works
CR have you dynod a bike with then without a pc? what about using a data logger?
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Texas12R
Zone Head
Posts: 545
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posted November 30, 2008 03:20 AM
nikko G-pack for the speed de-restriction......
Scotts correct on the resistor....I cant quantifiy the value......it is probably listed in the manual
ie a ohmic value to check
the speed is verified through gear position indicator AND crank sensor if I remember correctly.....both through the ecu with some calculations .....it was all explained by our own Rideracer in his quest to remap the 16 bit ecu ...I reserve the right to be wrong because I forget more than I remember
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Fasttimez
Novice Class
Posts: 59
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posted November 30, 2008 06:02 AM
I live in VA and my 12 isn't Cali emissions, only the 04-05 12's had electronic controlled smog systems, I'll do some research on the resistor, I wonder if there's a designated wire for the smog system, if so I could remove it from my ECU connector harness, this is how most suzuki's work. I talked to schnitz racing about the speed de-restriction thing, they told me that the bonneville box, Ivan's TRE, and the Nikko G-pack won't work on the 04-05 12's, they're for the 00-03 models only. The ECU monitors only gear position (in regards to speed restriction) the instrument cluster sends a signal (via restistance) to the ECU letting it know when the bike has achieved maximum allowable speed, this was confirmed by schnitz. But there is a way to fool the ECU signal by putting in an inline resistor in the instrument cluster harness and there's a way to do it using a speedo healer ? They told me the ZX12R is a great bike but when Kawi finally worked all the bugs out and released the 04-05 models they made it almost impossible to modify anything they had done, that's why all the race goodies and aftermarket parts are geared toward's the 00-03 models, they said the aftermarket literally gave up trying to figure out the 04-05 models.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted November 30, 2008 08:09 AM
I was pretty sure there was a dyno graph posted where a guy used the g pack on an 05 and it got rid of the lower rev limiter in 6th.... if that doesnt work though, just send the ecu to be hacked by RR or someone like that
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Texas12R
Zone Head
Posts: 545
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posted November 30, 2008 06:28 PM
 Edited By: Texas12R on 1 Dec 2008 02:33
http://www.redtagmotorsports.net/kazx2020nig.html
Capt10ed was the first to comfirm this worked
I really hate to say whoever stated the G-pack was only for the 02-03 was wrong,
but they are.....I just dont have the proof that the derestrictor works on my 05 ......but it is installed on my 05......I havent had the oppertunity to get mine confirmed at over 186
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Texas12R
Zone Head
Posts: 545
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posted November 30, 2008 06:35 PM
the nikko site is down.......I bought mine directly from France
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Texas12R
Zone Head
Posts: 545
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posted November 30, 2008 07:27 PM
Edited By: Texas12R on 1 Dec 2008 03:30
I found the old post
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=1&TID=30915&set_time=
last I heard Marlin had not worked on the 32bit ecu's.....Im probaly wrong about that too
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Fasttimez
Novice Class
Posts: 59
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posted December 01, 2008 05:31 AM
Reading your old post it's all starting to make sense to me, the Nikko G-pack plugs in to the same connectors as the speedo healer, this would explain what someone told me that by using the speedo healer you could eliminate your top speed limiter, how I don't know. Now does the Nikko G-pack work like an Ivan's TRE, meaning does it also smooth out throttle response and give you more power in the lower gears and rpm range because this is really what I'm after, eliminating the top speed restriction would just be an added bonus.
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Fasttimez
Novice Class
Posts: 59
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posted December 01, 2008 07:20 AM
Talked to a tech friend of mine and he confirmed the speed limiter could be eliminated by using a speedo healer, pretty simple actually, just set it to read lower than the actual speed of the bike and that's it, down side is just cruising around town or riding normal your speedo would read way off all the time.
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Fasttimez
Novice Class
Posts: 59
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posted December 01, 2008 01:22 PM
I have another question, where can I get a Nikko G-pack ? I've called about the 12 biggest American distributers and they all tell me the same thing, that they don't stock it and that the venders they deal with for this product have discontinued it, looks like I'm up poo-poo creek with no paddle.
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Texas12R
Zone Head
Posts: 545
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posted December 02, 2008 03:09 AM
thats why I ordered directly from France....I couldnt find one on this side of the pond......
http://direct.nikkoracing.com/boutique/index_travaux.cfm?code_lg=lg_us
I wonder what happened to the nikko site?
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Fasttimez
Novice Class
Posts: 59
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posted December 02, 2008 06:19 PM
Check this out, found a great company in the UK that sells Nikko products cheap and they're in stock. They also have some other cool crap you won't find for your bike here in the states.
http://www.intobikes.co.uk/
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Crazi
Parking Attendant
Posts: 10
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posted December 03, 2008 05:47 AM
The new electronic speedohealer has two modes. You can set "A" to be the correct speed indication and set "B" for when you want a top speed pass. Changing between them is as simple as holding a button in until you see the letter you want appear.
Check it out...
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KINGKWIK
Expert Class
9.36@ 149.23
Posts: 142
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posted December 03, 2008 11:30 AM
I have a 04 12 with a g-pakk on it and it works great... Before the bike would start to slow accelerating around 175mph or 280kmh and then stop pulling at an indicated 300km/h or 186mph with 1500 rpm to redline to go.... Now with the nikko g-pakk the bikes speedo needle slams through 300/186 mark until about 320/200 (indicated of course not actual) and then skips over to the other side of the speedo where its not registering at all..... Now we all know the speedo on bikes are "phucked" up but the curious thing is that before the bike had 1500 rpm to go, now it not only will hit red line but it'll pull the limiter,,,this is with 17 tooth front...
found my nikko g-pakk here in classifieds...
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If it has wheels or tits its bound to be trouble!!
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Fasttimez
Novice Class
Posts: 59
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posted December 03, 2008 12:56 PM
I just ordered the Nikko G-Pack over 3 module from the UK. The Over 3 module is supposed to be the new and improved version, it only cost me $145.00 including shipping. All the prices I checked in the US was about $215.00, which I wouldn't mind paying if they had one. lol I'm still wondering if it does anything for the bike in the low and mid-range area or just eliminate top speed restriction ?
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KINGKWIK
Expert Class
9.36@ 149.23
Posts: 142
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posted December 03, 2008 02:58 PM
Fastimez
I would say it doesn't do a damn thing. 1St the 04/05 12's aren't restricted in the lower gears. Also I drag race this bike many runs with and without the g pak and there is no diff...
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If it has wheels or tits its bound to be trouble!!
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Texas12R
Zone Head
Posts: 545
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posted December 03, 2008 04:30 PM
If you want more on the lower rpm range (rate of acceleration) you need the ignition module for the pc3 usb.....oh and the hub.....the g-pack doesnt do anything for the timming...no need
as Kingkwick pointed out
I like the ability to run the map switch also (two maps on board)
the hub also gives you the ability to activate two low amp outputs
Rick is correct ....You dont NEED a Power commander......But it is helpful
if you want to play around with some variables......
I was getting 38 mpg during the summer.....
you probably didnt want to know all that.. 
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Fasttimez
Novice Class
Posts: 59
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posted December 03, 2008 05:21 PM
I know I'll prob. get blasted for saying this but Suzuki's are way easier to work on and mod. lol Like I said this is my first Kawi, been around and worked on alot of 6's and 10's but this 12 is a whole different beast. Now in regards to ignition, I hear people talk about installing an adjustable ignition advancer/retard pickup. I think most people say they run 2 degrees advance all the time with just motor only and retard alittle for NOS. Is this little jem worth the money or effort ?
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Texas12R
Zone Head
Posts: 545
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posted December 03, 2008 05:29 PM
with the ignition module you get to change the advance/retard anywhere in the rpm range.
a little better option than a fixed advance
Karl had posted a map that had ignition advance that ranged from 0 to 8 degrees I think
Yep Suzukis are easier......
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted December 03, 2008 09:55 PM
Edited By: KZScott on 4 Dec 2008 05:58
everyone and his dog has a busa or gsxr 1000 tho.... once you mod a 12, its just that much better after. IMO dont go over 4 degrees unless you know what you are doing. I have ran 5 with no problems, but i have JE pistons, modified combustion chambers ect. I pulled 7.5 degrees for a 90 shot on pump gas, probly couldnt hurt to take a couple more. in fact if I were to do it again i would pull 9 unless i ran some race gas(i used 91 octane)
If you have a muzzy pipe, you need a PC(or an ecu reflash) lol. huge changes from stock.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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KINGKWIK
Expert Class
9.36@ 149.23
Posts: 142
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posted December 04, 2008 05:23 AM
Well put Scott... everyone has a busa, including my brother in law and we both bracket race. Probably the biggest reason I went with the 12 is that it wasn't a busa. Besides the fact its prettier, handles a lot better, just as fast, and is faster...lol incase your listening.... Bruce.
Scott I klnow you know a hell of a lot more than me but Im not sure if the recommended timing advances for the 1st generation 12s apply to the 03 to 05's...any insight would be appreciated...
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If it has wheels or tits its bound to be trouble!!
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Fasttimez
Novice Class
Posts: 59
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posted December 04, 2008 12:30 PM
You guys are right on, the biggest reason I got rid of my Suzuki's was because they're everywhere, I got so tired of pulling up to a bike night or bike event and 3/4 of the bikes were Busa's or 1000's, including me. So after some research I went with the ZX12 because you just don't see them around, one guy tried to tell me that Kawi never made a ZX12 and he used to sell parts at a Kawi dealer, I guess that should tell you guys how few there are in my part of the US. lol
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capt10ed
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted December 05, 2008 06:19 PM
The G-pack worked I also got mine form France. But regarding the Smog stuff I installed the Muzzy caps and and just kept the electronic plugged in ( just the relay/solinoid). So no FI light problem
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2014 Loring AFB 14 runs over 200mph
with a best of 208.1 in 1.5 miles
and 204.5 in the mile.
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