jason370
Zone Head
Posts: 589
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posted August 31, 2002 02:14 PM
next group purchase..........corbin seat!!!!!!!
on the heels of our successful steering dampener group buy, a new group deal idea has emerged. Corbin seats for the 12. I am considering heading up the task if I can get enough interested parties.
let me know,
jason370@hotmail.com
jason370@aol.com
jason
   
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21896
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posted August 31, 2002 02:51 PM
This time can you try to use the pay per post site the way it was intended, by posting the info in there including the prices etc so that people can perhaps take advantage of this group buy? (instead of being secretive?__
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jason370
Zone Head
Posts: 589
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posted August 31, 2002 04:09 PM
fish,
it has become painfully obvious that if one lets everyone know the price, dealer, etc, that the infighting begins, and competing dealers start bitching like i have never seen.
it is also painfully obvious by the underwhelming turnout that the pay per post is a total waste and the only way that anyone will ever see that there is a group buy is to state so right here in the main forum.
this is another reason for keeping the details quiet, so that there is no advertising for any dealer and nobodys toes get stepped on. dont mean to slam the pay per post but the truth is the truth.
let me know if this is a problem and i'll just drop the whole thing. i do think that the newfound group buying thing is a positive for this site and if we can find a way to better facilitate it then it would be a good for all. let me know your thoughts , im open to any suggestions.
jason
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harryzx-12
Needs a job
Posts: 3643
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posted September 01, 2002 06:29 AM
why not let him try to save people money Fish? He's not a dealer and he's not doing this for a profit, only to help himself and others save money.
____________
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways- Body thoroughly used up, totally worn out...Screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride !!!"
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21896
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posted September 01, 2002 06:43 AM
well... actually harry we dont have a prob with him saving people $$.. but generally when people organize a group buy they do it to save themselves extra cash (above and beyond the group price) and or get the product thrown in fer free... maybe Jason isnt doing this.. we dont care either way... basically the ppp forum was created to allow an area where users could organize group buys etc and give back little of that savings that they would get to the site since none of this would even be happening if we werent online... it was also created to give the dealer some "press" or a little advertising, at a lower rate but in a diff forum and a diff manner so that co's who take out "real" ad space would not be offended.
Man... do I really have to walk this political tightrope everytime to explain this?
Jason... it's just not how we imagined it would go but whatever... and if you think it's hard dealing with "competing dealers " bitching.. .try running this site... yer damned if you do and yer damned if you dont...
oh well..
it's raining out.
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted September 01, 2002 11:38 AM
 Edited By: worm~hole on 1 Sep 2002 12:55
...I don't understand...we have sponsors...we have users who use the sponsor's products or services...we have users who tout or brown trout our sponsor's products, services, or other manufacturers, coompanies, services, etc....the board is here for members to use, share, and to spread the word, right?...its not as if jason is a parts-broker and he's making a commission, right?...so what's the difference between him saying, "Hey!...buy xyz product from our sponsors xyz company...they're the best and they'll treat you right." and "Hey...I know lmnop will sell lmnop product for us for x-dollars...they're not a sponsor, but the product does what xyz does, but different...who's in?."
I'm not trying to stir the pot...just trying to understand (just in case I come across a product or service that I might want to share with our members). Will sales of a product or service require the product company or service company to become sponsor here for the members to take advantage of their product or service at a discounted rate?
I can see that if a comapny wanted to hawk their product or service on this site, they should offer sponsorship (help pay for the site, buy air-time, in exchange for the exposure to the target group which in return generates revenue for them).
I can see that if a hobbyist/enthusiast member has a homemade product/service he/she wants to sell/provide to the members for profit, he/she should "buy" air-time as well, to sell/provide the product/service to members.
I don't know why a non-profit member has to pay for getting a group buy together. If he's using a sponsor to get the deal, the sponsor should be happy, right? If one of two sponsors decides to do the offer and make less profit for the same product, its on them, right? If a manufacturer sets price guidelines for its products to its distributors, the distributors should maintain that line, right? If one distributor wants to undercut another and make less profit, its on them, right? The price issue should be between manufacturer and distributors...not between a non-profit member and the site, right?
I don't know what it takes and how much it costs to run a site like this, but speaking for myself, I'd be willing to cough over a small annual due to keep it running. I say 'small' cuz with all the members and users we have, this site doesn't need a whole lotta money to keep it running...like a psuedo-subscription...two bucks a year on an honor system...because it makes us feel good?
This will mean more work for the site owners to keep money ledger squared away for non-profit status...left-over cash could be used to buy 'door-prizes' for the regular members, users, or anyone choosing to visit the site...or use towards a big-ass BBQ at the next event...I know, I know...what if a non-contributing member get the prize?...hopefully he/she becomes a 'subscriber' because this is an informative and fun site to visit/participate in.
This site has provided me with so much info, ideas, and good times....and I've met a bunch of great people with a common, bonding interest. Also made lifelong friends. As an active member and participant, I'm just trying to understand how things supposed to work.
Sorry if I made you walk the tightrope again, but I'm don't get it....and I'd like to get it 
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted September 01, 2002 12:00 PM
the main problem we faced with group buys was one fish already mentioned in the above post: organizers often get the product free or at a further discount. obviously we cant know when this is the case and when it isnt. so we decided on a blanket policy. u r of course painfully familiar with this concept worm~hole, enforcing laws which r really only required for a subset of society (cause they'r stupid, inexperienced, amoral, etc), yet they'r applied to everyone. being part of the group that runs this board has been a real eye opener in understanding this rather unfortunate concept.
now i for one would still be happy to hear any suggestions from the crowd as to how to handle this situation. i like the idea of having everyone who takes part in a group buy chippin in $1 or something, since the existence of the board (read: it's members) gave them the opportunity to save $20 or $100 on a product. but thats just too damn hard to administrate, and a little to close to a police state for my liking since we would have to chase down have the contestents for their $1, which is hardly worth my time anyway. the honour system is nice, but inevitably many people dont honour it, so the cheaters win and honourable members get screwed. i see this happen every damn day in life & it just pisses me off. the pay per post forum seemed like the ideal solution cause the only policing that needed to be done was to delete any group buy threads in teh main forum.
so if anyone has any better ideas, i'm all ears. seriously. the only other thing i can suggest is the board organize group buys itself, and not allow members to do it. then we can sit comfortable in the knowledge that noone is gettin a free ride (including ourselves), and if needs be we can charge $5 directly to the dealer who is making $$ by selling a dozen units at once. actually, i do kinda like that idea. it will cost me more time than is worth it for me, but at least there's peace of mind. course i got no money to buy any parts fer a while anyhow, so for once i'd be the president of the club but NOT a members
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted September 01, 2002 12:24 PM
...then its up to the manufacturere and the distributors to ensure that the freebie doesn't happen, right?...just tell the organizing member that everybody pays the same price at a discount rate...what's so hard about that?
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted September 01, 2002 12:28 PM
Good luck with Corbin, btw...This is a reply to an email I sent before Laguna Seca. Check out the date I got a reply:
From: Joe Mendoza
Date: Thursday, August 29, 2002 10:05 AM
To: Swft (by way of Corbin Postmaster ) (by way of stewart ) (by way of Rolando Calderon )
Subject: Re: Bags and Seat for Kawasaki ZZR1200
Please forgive the generic nature of this e-mail message, but we're a
little under the gun here. We just found out that some key personnel were
not performing their jobs well. We have found literally hundreds of
unanswered Customer Service & Sales messages that have been ignored. First
we would like to sincerely apologize for any inconvenience you may have
been through during this time. Second we would like to make sure your
questions or issues have been completely resolved. Due to the manner in
which these individuals left the company we feel we needed to follow up.
If there are any questions we can answer or other information you need,
please send a message to this address: joe@mike-corbin.com. Again, we are
very sorry for any inconvenience and hope to hear from you soon.
Happy Trails,
Mike Corbin's Workshop of Wizards
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jason370
Zone Head
Posts: 589
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posted September 01, 2002 01:45 PM
freek,
i understand your concerns of the organizer getting a freebie. makes a lot of sense. and i know that you are not accusing me of this but merely stating that there is the possibility of fire where smoke exists. to be honest with you, even though i have no interest in any more than a reasonable discount that everyone can share in equally, i would not care if an organizer got a freebie or not, as long as i got a good deal for myself. i am sure most members feel similarly.
for the record, i did not do this, and i would not do this. any person that wants to verify this, call doug at spencercycle and ask. i think the group purchase idea is good for everyone. we get to know each other better, makes the board a tighter knit community in my opinion. i think the best way to make sure this bord stays up and running with little worry about stepping on sponsors toes would be for each member to cough up an equal amount of money, 5 or 10 bucks should be more than enough. this way there are no special members withg higher status and we can speak freely about products and dealers.
just a thought.
jason
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted September 01, 2002 02:49 PM
worm~hole: it's not hard, i jsut dont trust that people will always follow the request. and i aint gonna start investigating each purchase to make sure the organizer didnt lie.
jason: as u said, i didnt think u were doin the freebie thing (dont know why, jsut didnt) but like i said, it's a blanket thing. and realistically (as unkind as it may sound) i really dont know if someone is doin so or not. it could be my brother and i still couldnt KNOW, as well as i know him. i do agree that group buys r a great idea & good for the board too.
as a side note pertinent to both comments above, i actually dont have that much of a problem with the organizer gettin an extra break or even a freebie (depending on the price tag of course) in that the organizer usually does have to put a couple hours work into the deal and quite possibly a bunch of long distance. but this again falls victim to the rather untrustworthy nature of that demon called human. how do we not know the organizer isnt actualyl the dealer? again, they are taking advantage of us and our paying sponsors by using our resources to make a sale for themselves. as u can see, it's a bit of a pandoras box. as nice as it is to jsut assume that everyone will be honest, and as much as i do that day to day in my non-online life, it jsut doesnt happen that way. dman, now i'm gonna be all down 
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ZHooligan
Moderator
Post Whore Extraordinaire!
Posts: 3829
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posted September 01, 2002 02:56 PM
Seen both sides of these operations. Don't like either side as a consequence.
____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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Dino
Pro
Posts: 1422
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posted September 01, 2002 03:24 PM
I have only sat on one Corbin seat and it was the most uncomfortable seat I've ever sat on!!It also had terrible fitment to the bike.....there's a problem in Q.C. when you have to break fairing parts just to get it bolted on??? In other words,....I don't want one,I likes the stocker jus'fan 
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uh oh
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swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted September 01, 2002 03:31 PM
I didn't much care for a corbin on my 12. Was ok for the long trips, but jeeze, when it came time for the twisties, was a bitch to get off of...On the other hand, the one on my ZZR fits perfectly, and does the intended job of keeping my nuts off the tank.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21896
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posted September 01, 2002 04:15 PM
I am WAY too wrapped up in house selling/moving stress to deal with this guys... honest.... the fucking people we are buying the house from swapped the washer/dryer fer some old nfg units...
not to belittle this whole thing as I infact do care about it and all of you, but I have bigger fish to fry right now....
just keep on truckin.... it will all sort itself out... it's just that this site was a lot easier to run when we had 50 guys... not 1700
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OZZY
Needs a job
need guberment cheese
Posts: 3172
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posted September 01, 2002 04:23 PM
quote:
I have only sat on one Corbin seat and it was the most uncomfortable seat I've ever sat on!!It also had terrible fitment to the bike.....there's a problem in Q.C. when you have to break fairing parts just to get it bolted on??? In other words,....I don't want one,I likes the stocker jus'fan
You sat on mine, you just weren't of sufficiant body weight to compress it and realize the comfort, LOL! The fit on mine is ok, but not good. It has not broken any body parts so far,(fingers crossed)probably due to the large gaps in its fitment!
____________
"It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses......HIT IT!"
Blues Bros.
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OZZY
Needs a job
need guberment cheese
Posts: 3172
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posted September 01, 2002 04:30 PM
If this or any group buy is going to save you some $$, why not pay fish and freek the $5 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Shit that isnt a tank of fuel.
Just figure you donated $5 to the site for upkeep expenses if you dont like the pay per post idea.
I think the way you have done this group buy thing is bullshit anyway. All topsecret, dont know or tell the final price in time to make a decision. Post the best deal you can get, and let the members sign up is what I think.
____________
"It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses......HIT IT!"
Blues Bros.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted September 01, 2002 04:51 PM
Jason, You are a glutton for punishment! I hated what I went through with the Bear stacks, the only good news is that everyone is now aware of them and it helps us whip Ass on the Bus! I see 2 problems here! Corbin makes the markup that Muzzy gives look generous to the extreme! 2nd, the seats are never perfect and sometimes must go back to Corbin "Several" times to get them correct! Try to understand what I am going to say next! "
If you lead a group of thirsty people to a water hole, they will love you until they drink! Then if one of them gets sick, you will get the blame, then someone will complain about the bad taste of the water and so on and so forth"!Remember what I said!!
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted September 01, 2002 05:58 PM
damnit, i REALLY do want a fix fer this seat eventually tho. it IS pretty good fer the twisties, but i dont get to spend that much time in the twisties on longer rides. somehow i always liked the look of the sargeant, but i dont believe they make a seat fer the 12 (which strikes me as odd). Maybe I just need to find someone local who really knows seats & can do a custom seat.
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jason370
Zone Head
Posts: 589
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posted September 01, 2002 06:23 PM
ozzy,
i paid the five bucks, so shhh. secondly, any person that emailed me, immediately knew the details of the deal. i do not think that you have the right to flap your gums and start calling bullshit on me when you were too lazy to do so.
the only reason that it had to be kept quiet was because there were multiple feuding dealers that were bitching to muzzys and the deal would have never gone through if it were completely posted in all its details.
Lastly, this whole group deal thing is a double edged sword. in order to be taken seriously by any dealer, theyt need to know how many people are going to be buying. in order to be taken seriously by the buyers they need to know the price. the dealers wont give you a price until you tell them how many people might be interested. its very fucked up and i think that i did an exemplary job of handling all of the bullshit.
so ozzy, i call bullshit on you along with a false accusation.
jason
____________
'02 ZX12 black/gold
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Dino
Pro
Posts: 1422
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posted September 01, 2002 10:51 PM
:o
____________
uh oh
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beansbaxter
Needs a life
Posts: 5911
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posted September 01, 2002 11:15 PM
quote:
Good luck with Corbin, btw...This is a reply to an email I sent before Laguna Seca. Check out the date I got a reply:
From: Joe Mendoza
Date: Thursday, August 29, 2002 10:05 AM
To: Swft (by way of Corbin Postmaster ) (by way of stewart ) (by way of Rolando Calderon )
Subject: Re: Bags and Seat for Kawasaki ZZR1200
Please forgive the generic nature of this e-mail message, but we're a
little under the gun here. We just found out that some key personnel were
not performing their jobs well. We have found literally hundreds of
unanswered Customer Service & Sales messages that have been ignored. First
we would like to sincerely apologize for any inconvenience you may have
been through during this time. Second we would like to make sure your
questions or issues have been completely resolved. Due to the manner in
which these individuals left the company we feel we needed to follow up.
If there are any questions we can answer or other information you need,
please send a message to this address: joe@mike-corbin.com. Again, we are
very sorry for any inconvenience and hope to hear from you soon.
Happy Trails,
Mike Corbin's Workshop of Wizards
I also got that email just last week.
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kawachan
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted September 02, 2002 12:03 AM
All I have to say is "Thank you Jason!!"
I got a hell of a deal on a Muzzy Dampner just because I read his 25 posts on both boards and responded to his personal e-mail like any other member could have done. Jason was out the $5 for the "pay per post" but he still got a heck of a deal on a dampner.
Can I say it again. Thanks, Jason.
BTW, I didn't like my Corbin. The local upholstery shop modded my seat to fit me. Heck of a lot cheaper, too.
____________
RED NINJAS RULE!!
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beansbaxter
Needs a life
Posts: 5911
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posted September 02, 2002 01:57 AM
kawachan:
what did u not like about ur corbin?
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rs
Expert Class
Posts: 137
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posted September 02, 2002 05:47 AM
Thanks Jason!
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