jus1975
Expert Class
Posts: 402
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posted September 26, 2008 11:34 PM
clutch problem
It was time for a new clutch and I had a Muzzy setup laying around. Installed it and the clutch will not fully disengage. Check the steel and fiber thickness. Checked the satck height. Everything is ok. What could it be? The Muzzy setup has 10 2.0mm steels, 10 fibers, and 1 small fiber. I installed one set of chatter springs. The height was low without them. Only low by less than 1 mm. I think it was .3 or .4 mm short.
  
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted September 27, 2008 04:50 AM
you must compress the anti chatter springs to get an accurate reading. your stack height is too low
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted September 27, 2008 05:56 AM
You have to adjust the cable play...On the clutch lever or down by the clutch cover or both !!!
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jus1975
Expert Class
Posts: 402
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posted September 27, 2008 08:54 AM
I tried all the adjustments and I compressed the springs. Did anyone run this setup. I remember it was very popular some years ago. But I think it was this set up without the chatter springs. I was wandering if it could be the rod may be worn. Just to make sure, when measuring the stack height you dont include the pressure plate, right.
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jus1975
Expert Class
Posts: 402
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posted September 27, 2008 08:56 AM
Does anyone have a pic of there stack height with pressure plate on, so I can compare. If I remember correctly the pressure plate was less than half inside the basket.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted September 27, 2008 12:37 PM
pull all of the steels and fibers out. you will see how the rings spread it a bit. squeese the clutch pack together with one hand and put a set of calipers on it with the other. report back with the measurement. you will probly have to take out one or two 2.00mm steels and replace with two 1.6mm steels each. (two 1.6mm steels stacked together is just like using a 3.2mm steel, so if you swap a 2.0 for a "3.2", you add 1.2mm to the stack height)
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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jus1975
Expert Class
Posts: 402
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posted September 28, 2008 08:14 PM
Someone said that I may have installed the rod in wrong. I didn't think it was possible but I will check.
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jus1975
Expert Class
Posts: 402
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posted September 28, 2008 08:16 PM
I will check the stack height too, but I would think it would be on the tall side because of the Muzzy setup. 10 2mm steels, 10 fibers, 1 small fiber.
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Seth ZX12r UK
Expert Class
Posts: 238
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posted September 29, 2008 04:06 AM
quote:
pull all of the steels and fibers out. you will see how the rings spread it a bit. squeese the clutch pack together with one hand and put a set of calipers on it with the other. report back with the measurement. you will probly have to take out one or two 2.00mm steels and replace with two 1.6mm steels each. (two 1.6mm steels stacked together is just like using a 3.2mm steel, so if you swap a 2.0 for a "3.2", you add 1.2mm to the stack height)
Won't two steels together cause more slippage?
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mathews
Expert Class
Posts: 425
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posted October 06, 2008 11:41 AM
quote:
quote:
pull all of the steels and fibers out. you will see how the rings spread it a bit. squeese the clutch pack together with one hand and put a set of calipers on it with the other. report back with the measurement. you will probly have to take out one or two 2.00mm steels and replace with two 1.6mm steels each. (two 1.6mm steels stacked together is just like using a 3.2mm steel, so if you swap a 2.0 for a "3.2", you add 1.2mm to the stack height)
Won't two steels together cause more slippage?
No
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted October 06, 2008 03:17 PM
Just put a stock clutch in it........
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brickman
Expert Class
Posts: 294
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posted October 07, 2008 05:02 AM
I THINK YOU NEED TO TAKE THE SMALL FIBER OUT. AND THE CHATTER RINGS.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted October 07, 2008 05:08 AM
Yeah, what would I know...........
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42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
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AMSOIL
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted October 07, 2008 01:26 PM
quote:
quote:
pull all of the steels and fibers out. you will see how the rings spread it a bit. squeese the clutch pack together with one hand and put a set of calipers on it with the other. report back with the measurement. you will probly have to take out one or two 2.00mm steels and replace with two 1.6mm steels each. (two 1.6mm steels stacked together is just like using a 3.2mm steel, so if you swap a 2.0 for a "3.2", you add 1.2mm to the stack height)
Won't two steels together cause more slippage?
no, theres no possible way for them to slip against each other, they both fit on the hub. the fibers fit in the basket. look at the grooves.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted October 07, 2008 02:34 PM
Everybody is right!
Stock clutch offer more clutch area by adding a extra steel and fiber.
Muzzy pack is at the min when new and you can add another steel
1.4 or replace a 2.0 with (2) 1.6's.
Either will get you riding. Don't remember the muzzy pack using the chatter rings or the small fiber.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted October 07, 2008 04:24 PM
Thats why the stocker is better..............
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
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Syed Leathers
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KZScott
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high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted October 07, 2008 04:34 PM
the muzzy pack does use the small fiber and anti chatter rings. i put in a new set this spring just because i had them.
more surface area, but unless you can slip like a pro or tune like the DR, its easier to warp the stock steels if you race hard / hotlap. i warped a muzzy steel my first season lol, but the rest of the pack was fine. i think it was when i was having issues with stack height because i had the muzzy kit and no info about its issues...
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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DeathProof
Novice Class
deceased
Posts: 51
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posted November 18, 2008 04:45 PM
clutch problem?
My 1270cc zx12r puts out 220hp at the crank and has a 50hp dry nos set up. ran a 10.30 my first run, then the clutch exploded on the second run which would have been in the 9's but in second the bike wheelie and detonate, no nos. shitty kawi clutch has everyone replacing but then you have problems, no? Don't forget to soak the fibers in oil for two hours befour you inslal.
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aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted November 18, 2008 07:13 PM
When installing,make sure the steels all face the same direction.
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almost_les
Zone Head
Posts: 590
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posted November 18, 2008 08:33 PM
quote:
My 1270cc zx12r puts out 220hp at the crank and has a 50hp dry nos set up. ran a 10.30 my first run, then the clutch exploded on the second run which would have been in the 9's but in second the bike wheelie and detonate, no nos. shitty kawi clutch has everyone replacing but then you have problems, no? Don't forget to soak the fibers in oil for two hours befour you inslal.
*rolls eyes as he throws up the ol' BS flag*
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted November 18, 2008 08:49 PM
quote:
My 1270cc zx12r puts out 220hp at the crank and has a 50hp dry nos set up. ran a 10.30 my first run, then the clutch exploded on the second run which would have been in the 9's but in second the bike wheelie and detonate, no nos. shitty kawi clutch has everyone replacing but then you have problems, no? Don't forget to soak the fibers in oil for two hours befour you inslal.
Im wondering where he found a dyno to measure it at the crank.....
im assuming you blew the basket up. if you race them you need a billet basket
soaking the fibers has no effect on them, a light coating rubbed on by your finger when installing them is all you need
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted November 19, 2008 07:08 AM
10 2.0 steels, 11 std fibers, no anti-chatter springs, don't offset the last fiber. Everything else stock, assemble with minimum oil (just a quick finger wipe) make sure that you adjust the actuator lever exactly as the book describes.
Better yet call muzzys and ask them to email you the instructions for the kit. There are thousands of these in the field that work perfectly.
The stock clutch is not shitty, it simply was not designed for excessive rider induced slipping. The 2.0 steels are more resistent to heat warp, and on the A models the drilled hub puts in some extra cooling oil.
____________
It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted November 19, 2008 03:36 PM
You can turn stock steels purple........, and they will not warp...........
All my steels are purple.........
Run the anti chatter rings.........
Offsetting the last fiber or not has not affect........
Run the stock clutch, don't abuse it, ie, 5 passes in a half hour like some fools........, adjust it just like the book says.........
And be done.
Unless you decide to go to a lock up. Then the variables change, to a point.
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted November 19, 2008 03:42 PM
I have to point out again to all that, I really doubt that you can ride like NOX. You have to understand how not to abuse the clutch. If you can get that figured out, like he does, you don't need any trick parts, just skill.
I say this because in the first few years of the 12 I spoke with hundreds and hundreds of guys who were tearing up two clutches a night. No matter what we told them, no matter how patient i was, I was the idiot and Kawasaki made junk. It sort of changes your outlook over time.
____________
It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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zx12mark
Pro
Posts: 1654
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posted November 25, 2008 10:14 PM
hey doug do i win a prize.
i have close to 200 1/4 mile pass` at gateway and still have the original clutch pack.i also have 45000 miles on them.i sqeezed out 2- 9.6`s on nov.1st.i have a muzzy billet and my own hub mod...........dale walker push button electric shifter.the inner steels are getting purple these days.i think for xmas i`ll put new guts in the basket.
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