riteristrob
Expert Class
Posts: 109
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posted June 25, 2008 06:50 PM
Motul e-Tech No Oil Pressure
I've run Golden Spectro 10-40 synthetic blend in all my bikes, but after having some false neutrals on my 02 ZX12R, 12,000 miles, I decided to try Motul e-Tech 100 10-40 based on some comments from other owners.
After a new filter and 3 quarts of the Motul, I started it up, but the oil light would not go out. I let it idle with some intermittent blips to 3-4k for about 5 mins and it started sounding a bit like a rod knock. I shut it down, pulled the filter, and to my surprise there was no oil in the filter. So, for some reason the oil wasn't being picked up and circulated.
Anyone have a similar problem after switching oil? Is the Motul e-Tech so slippery that the oil pump wasn't picking it up? How could that be?
I've since switched back to Golden Spectro and am being more diligent with my shifts. But I'd like to know why the $10.50/quart of magic elixir didn't work in my sweet baby.
Any ideas? VH?
  
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted June 25, 2008 08:14 PM
you didnt put oil in the filter before you put it on???
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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woppi
Pro
Posts: 1362
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posted June 25, 2008 11:19 PM
#
as KZScott says !! put some oil in the new oil filter !!!!!!!!!!
there is to much air in the system !
woppi
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1st TFA Member / Austria !
" if it has wheels or titts - sometimes you will get troubles "
2000 Limited ZX12R NOS
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted June 26, 2008 05:17 AM
WOW!! You are a first and you should ALWAYS Fill the filter (Several times) then put it on!
WHen you take a long time to change oil and use a Dry filter it takes a long time (If ever) to get Oil supply through the system. The Oil drains back into the sump and you loose the fluid like a Pump that is not primed!
Also I get free shipping and pay about $6.95 to $7.95 a Quart
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted June 26, 2008 05:20 AM
This is the reason for "Burping" the oil filter.
I leave mine loose (O-Ring touching case), disconnect injectors (Plug in harness on the left side of rail), turn over the engine until oil drips out of o-ring. Then tighten filter and clean up drips.
Turn over engine until my gauge shows pressure (3-7 psi.) or in your case, oil light goes out.
Plug in injectors and then start engine.
5 MINUTES, NO PRESSURE!?! NOT GOOD!
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted June 26, 2008 10:46 AM
Nothing to do with the brand of oil. Always fill and burp.
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Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted June 26, 2008 01:56 PM
quote:
Nothing to do with the brand of oil. Always fill and burp.
Every time I sit down to eat 
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We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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thekaz
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spell chequer is bustimicated
Posts: 2909
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posted June 26, 2008 02:38 PM
I am a Cnadian mechanic so I don't do any of that
BUT on fridays after the beer I can sometimes experiance uncontrolled burping
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted June 26, 2008 07:15 PM
i fill the filter, wait for it to go down, fill again, wait, fill .. repeat till it wont hold any more. that way it will prime the pump and get rid of a lot of air 
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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aliveagain
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Posts: 5033
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posted June 26, 2008 07:55 PM
If you heard the rod knocking, you may want to have that checked out.Aside from having to buy a new engine,not hearing the engine knocking while riding down the road can be dangerous.When that rod goes and spits out through the casing,oil follows right in front of your rear wheel.May be that there is no problem and you caught it in time,but it is a gamble now.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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VincentHill
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posted June 27, 2008 01:45 AM
AA I think he may be OK! I did Dummer than that when I put the Gear for the Oil Pump on Backward and did exactly the same thing and heard the same noises! It is that dry sound you hear before you get Oil Pressure from everything being loose! I di not think he went "5" Minutes, but is sure feels like a long time when you are waiting to see the Light go out! This is the same engine I have made over 300 HP and used for several years later for my Land Speed Racing.
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted June 27, 2008 05:57 AM
I have at times forgotten to fill the oil filter, we all have Im sure while doing other maintenence on our bikes...But I have never had that the problem that Rob described!!!
Rob, tell us your exact procedure on how you changed the oil...Did you tighten the oil filter super tight???...Did you put oil on the o-ring of the oil filter???...Did you ever drop the oil pan and check the pick up screen???
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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riteristrob
Expert Class
Posts: 109
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posted June 27, 2008 02:38 PM
As usual, thanks for the Great feedback.
I used to fill the filter but for some unknown reason stopped doing it. I always bump the starter a few times to get oil circulating before starting.
Here's my procedure: Bike on rear wheel stand, pull left side fairing, warm up engine, pull oil drain plug, pull filter, let sit for a few minutes, lower bike to side stand (a little more oil drains), let sit for a few mins, bike back up on rear stand, tighten drain plug, tighten filter (with a bit of oil on gasket), add 3 quarts or 2.8 liters of oil, bump starter 3-4 times, start engine, check for leaks, install side fairing.
I don't think I did much damage to the engine, as I ran about 300 miles over the weekend (with the Golden Spectro) and no signs or sounds of trouble.
I gotta admit to being a dumbass on this one, and apprecitate you guys pointing out the fill and burp routine. Next oil change I'll put the Motul back in......the right way!
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VincentHill
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posted June 27, 2008 05:03 PM
My Only thought thaT caused this (This time) was Timing! You may have taken more time to drain it and lost the Oil that is Usually still in the System!
What you did was not DUMB because that is how most of us change the Oul in Cars specially when the Oil filters are USD and you cannot fill the filter as in the Mini Cooper. The Oledr Bikes with a Filter in the Oil Pan could not be done either!
I am a Little Upset that you are going to use the Oil because I was going to ask for it
When I get back, I will show you a few places that I get it for between $6.95 to $7.95 a Quart and Free SHipping!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted June 27, 2008 05:45 PM
i did a dyno run no etech100 then dyno run with it did not see any power increase. ran it for years and now went to conventional oil for clutch slipping reasons. i got a case was 110 bucks. now i go on line also. but i give the bike shop a chance to sell it to me for what i say i will pay.(i usually go a couple of dollars above shipping costs). so far it works for me and no chaseing the UPS or FEDEXPRESS guy.
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VincentHill
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posted June 28, 2008 05:01 AM
I do not believe there is much or any Power difference! The WEAR A huge difference! I put in the Washer behind the clutch Basket backward and no problem with the Motul! Used regular Oil to breank in a New engine and (RIngs and Pistons) Saw some metal took the engine apart to replace the Bearing that had over heated from the friction
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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riteristrob
Expert Class
Posts: 109
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posted July 02, 2008 06:40 AM
Hmmm...VH, your point brings up another point.
I'm not looking for more power through the use of specialized oil, but I do want my bike to last a long time. Plus I just get jiggy thinking of the power of a film of oil protecting such high stress mating surfaces. (My neighbors have given up trying to have a conversation with me).
Anyway, I bought the bike with 3k miles on it. Bike was lowered 3 inches in the rear, and about an inch up front. I was suspect that the bike was used for drag racing, but the guy assured me it was never down a track. He was vertically challenged, the bottom of the fairing was scraped up a little from hitting a speed bump in his neighborhood, which I saw. It had brand new tires, which he said were the first replacements, stock Dunlops.
I got the bike home and changed the oil right away. There were 3-4 pieces of metal in the bottom of the drain pan. The biggest was about half the size of a BB and had a jagged edge like it had been broken off something. Not like a sliver that had been sheared from a bearing. I should have used a magnet to check if it was ferrous, but didn't think of it at the time.
Then I pulled the clutch cover. no sign that the cover had ever been removed before. I checked all the steels for heat spots, there were none. I measured all the fibers for thickness, they were all very close to the thick side of the service limit. So I was feeling confident that the bike had not been abused.
I interpreted the chuncks of metals as possibly being broken off a gear during a sloppy shift, but I'm not sure how likely that would be.
Bike has a full race Muzzy system, PC3r, and BMC street filters.
Now, 10k miles later, never any peices of metal in my oil. Bike sounds and runs awesome. I don't race it, very rarely hit over 10,000 rpms (unless somebody thinks their busa is faster), no wheelies....well maybe some small power wheelies......This coming winter I'm planning on doing a valve check, installing slotted cam sprockets and degreeing the cams. If I come into about $2,500 extra, I might do a 1270 or 1290 kit......eventually.
Here's my questions.
At what point would it be wise to check the crank/bearings given the bikes history?
Do I have to spit cases to inspect the crank, or can that be done just removing the oil pan?
Do I have to split cases to inspect transmission gears?
Thanks for the feedback! - Rob
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shane661
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posted July 02, 2008 02:17 PM
 Edited By: shane661 on 2 Jul 2008 15:25
I have found that my 12R is way more sensitive to this than any other bike I have ever had. Even filling the filter first it can take a few starts before the light goes out.
In fact, I have never had another bike (out of 15 or so bikes) that did this. And I never had to fill the filter on those bikes, nor did it say to do it in the service or owner's manuals.
I have also found that while the filter obviosuly will retain some oil when filled beforehand, it sure can make a mess putting it on due to the horizontal mounting.
Shane
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted July 03, 2008 10:16 AM
KHI specifically put a single rotor oil pump on this engine to minimize drag and over oiling at high rpm, thus maximizing power.
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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