buck80mph
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted June 11, 2008 11:25 AM
1270 kit
I have a 04 zx12 with the muzzy 1270 big bore kit. I recently put it on the dyno. I was disappointed with the results : 171hp with 95.3 lbs of torque. The mechanic did say it was running lean . But can I gain 10 hp by remapping it correctly ?
  
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buck80mph
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted June 11, 2008 12:09 PM
I was expecting at least 180hp and 99 lbs of torque.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 11, 2008 12:40 PM
what kind of dyno?
10 hp is a LOT to get from mapping unless it is WAY-WAY-WAY rich.
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Phantom13
Zone Head
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posted June 11, 2008 01:10 PM
Too little information was given in the post.
Post up the dyno chart with the A/F and we can tell you about how much more power can be gained by tweeking the map.
Also, what other mods have been done to the engine?
Cams?
Headwork?
What exhaust system are you running?
Air filters?
Have you played with ignition timing?
What type of fuel?
What type of Dyno?
Who built the engine?
How many miles on the valve seats?
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buck80mph
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted June 11, 2008 01:25 PM
stock cams
no headwork
akrapovic titanium full system
k&n air filters
no, have not played with ignition timing
93 octane
??
Paul Miller at Motorcycle Specialties, Houma,LA
~9000
tomorrow I will post the dyno printout
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
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posted June 11, 2008 06:23 PM
sae or std hp?
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
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posted June 12, 2008 06:02 AM
What did your bike dyno stock?
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted June 12, 2008 09:48 PM
HP is all in the little details.
Cam degree, compression, at least a "cleaned up" head, mapping, timing and get rid of those K&N's! Get some BMC Race filters.
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buck80mph
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted June 13, 2008 05:45 AM
 Edited By: buck80mph on 13 Jun 2008 06:59
here's the readout:
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
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posted June 13, 2008 08:36 AM
Definitely needs some A/F mapping
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buck80mph
Novice Class
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posted June 13, 2008 08:51 AM
Doug or someone can you explain my air fuel ratio print out to me ?
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Phantom13
Zone Head
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posted June 13, 2008 11:56 AM
Edited By: Phantom13 on 13 Jun 2008 12:57
You are dangerously lean in the mid rpm's. A safe A/F ratio is around 12.8:1, your graph shows that the bike is running between 13.8:1 - 15.0:1 A/F which is killing the power.
Do yourself a favor and give this a try on the Power Commander.
LOW = +3 Bars
MID = + 5 Bars
HIGH = + 4 Bars
Yes, that's a lot of fuel but you're running extremely lean in the midrange and way too lean up top.
There's another 6-8rwhp in your bike with proper fuel and possibly a few more with a couple degrees of timing advance and a splash of race fuel.
OH, and ditch the K&N filters they are no better than stock. Get yourself a set of BMC race filters, worth a couple rwhp.
There's no reason why your bike can't make 185+rwhp, you just need to get some good filters and have it tuned properly.
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
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posted June 13, 2008 01:37 PM
Phantom is exactly right. Mapping is everything when you've modded your bike.
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 13, 2008 05:21 PM
again I ask, what kind of dyno?
yep its too lean, but not 15 hp.
i'm guessing dyno type or dyno calibration is part of the answer
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Phantom13
Zone Head
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posted June 13, 2008 06:31 PM
I agree Karl, it's going to take more than fixing the A/F to pick up 15rwhp... but the potential is there with a couple little changes/mods and some race fuel in the mix.
Speaking of the Dyno..... I'm curious to see how much power my little 1287 would make on the local DJ250. Don't get me wrong, I'm a firm believer and practitioner of tuning via datalogging, but it's always nice to know.
Hows the Maxton engine coming along? Any early MPH predictions and/or goals?
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before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
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posted June 14, 2008 03:23 PM
torque is too low to be a big bore
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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buck80mph
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted June 16, 2008 03:46 AM
Next question for ya'll. Do I need to map my bike extra rich for a 40hp dry shot??
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johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
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posted June 16, 2008 05:36 AM
quote:
Next question for ya'll. Do I need to map my bike extra rich for a 40hp dry shot??
you are joking correct???
you are already too lean
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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buck80mph
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted June 16, 2008 05:48 AM
The key words are EXTRA RICH !
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johnnycheese
Pro
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posted June 16, 2008 06:35 AM
No the key word is you don't make anywhere close to a 1270 kit numbers
So I would NOT even thing about spray
SOMETHING IS WRONG!!!!!
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted June 16, 2008 07:22 AM
Have you done a leak down on this engine? What %?
Are your cams degree? What numbers?
Did you check valve clearances?
If Johnny says something is wrong, I'd take start looking!
Answer these questions, maybe some of these heavy weights will see your problem.
Why didn't you add fuel while it was on the dyno?
You want that 13.8 A/F line to be flat at around 12.5 . the higher the number the leaner the engine. You are too lean everywhere.
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buck80mph
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted June 16, 2008 08:04 AM
It was at a dyno shoot out . So there was no mapping being done.
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motospec
Parking Attendant
Posts: 1
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posted June 25, 2008 12:48 PM
Edited By: motospec on 25 Jun 2008 13:55
Hello this is Mike from Motorcycle Specialties.
You should have your bike mapped as suggested by the others.
You have only the map provided by Muzzy in the commander at this time.
I feel sure we can help you with this.
WE have a DYNO and can custom tune your bike.
Any questions -- call me.
At the time your bore kit was installed -- we did not have a dyno.........
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted June 25, 2008 04:38 PM
What they were asking was the Dynojet a 200, 250 ? What Model! Also we we the SAE but not the COrrection factor. Richer allows more torque and leaner shows the HP all between 12.6 to 13.2 Above 13.2 HP and 12.6 Torque! The Muzzy map was it for an Akrapovich??
I would think the Muzzy map would be for a MUZZY Pipe! Get the Dynojet map for the Akrapovich it will be a LOT closer!
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Megabyte
Pro
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posted June 27, 2008 11:02 AM
Edited By: Megabyte on 27 Jun 2008 15:46
quote:
It was at a dyno shoot out . So there was no mapping being done.
I wouldn't trust dyno shoot out #'s. Everyone complains about the low numbers. One year, a guy w/a turbo busa ran, and while he won the shoot out, his hp was over 50 hp less then expected. Another year, I took my 12 to the shop on Wednesday for a tune up and told them I wanted to win their up coming shootout So, 4 days later, I entered my bike @ their shootout, and she was down 8 HP from the dyno sheet they printed for me on Wednesday, 4 days earlier. Another year, I took my 1361 to a different shop to be tuned for an upcoming shoot out @ the previous shop where I was down 8 hp. When I picked up my bike, the mechanic handed me a dyno sheet showing 212 rwhp, and nearly 124 ft/lbs torque. This was actually what I expected because I have several dyno sheets from as many different dynos with the same #'s. Anyway, 4 days later I entered my 1361 in the dyno shoot out just as before, and only made 202 rwhp. I realize that there are a lot of variables to dyno #'s especially dyno shoot out #'s, but why should the #'s always be negative?
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