heavy ak
Novice Class
Posts: 64
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posted May 28, 2008 03:39 PM
1270 failure!
Picked my bike up on May 6:
Newly installed Muzzy 1270 kit, Muzzy supplied a map for the bike with my mods. Instructions said that for the first 100 miles to follow the break in procedure. I babied the bike for 500 miles just to ensure that it would perform...never went above 6K...varied the RPMs all the time.
May 25.....blown engine!!!!!
I was running on 3 cylinders...it sounded really shitty!!!
A mechanic who was with us on the run said it looks as if it was a spark plug that got blown out by compression (or something along those lines) there was greasy black residue on the front of the cases...nothing dripping to the ground though. There was NEVER any black, blue or white smoke coming from the bike. The last sound I heard was a gosh awful racket coming from the engine that sounded like something was broken loose and rattling around then "clunk" and she locked up. Now I know this will be covered under warranty becasue I got the parts through the dealership and they did the install.
Worse case scenario? What did they do wrong during the install and what damage could this have caused? Is it possible that Muzzy sent defective parts?
I had her tits up at the dealership when they opened the doors the next business day...
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A little GAS is a good thing!
  
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countersteer
Needs a job
Didn't read the owners manual
Posts: 2207
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posted May 28, 2008 03:43 PM
sorry to hear that dude, and good luck with the 'warranty' thru the dealer. if the motor on my 12 ever shits on me again, shes getting parted out... *knock on wood*
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Scott
Long Island, New York
2006 ZX-14, 2003 ZX-12R
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted May 29, 2008 05:32 AM
Piston kit is very solid and reliable. I would venture to say that a valve retainer let go and you dropped a valve into the chamber.
If it was a wrist pin or rod, the sound and issue would be different.
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted May 29, 2008 05:34 AM
You REALLY need to change the thread title to..."Engine assembly failure"!.
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted May 29, 2008 06:46 AM
 Edited By: dougmeyer on 29 May 2008 07:47
Post pics (or a very complete descripton of the parts) and we can pretty much tell you exactly what happened. Sorry for your loss......
Doug
P.S. So after you reached this 500 miles "milestone" what did you do- exactly.
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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heavy ak
Novice Class
Posts: 64
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posted May 29, 2008 11:26 AM
quote:
P.S. So after you reached this 500 miles "milestone" what did you do- exactly.
Well I gave it a test run up to about 9000 - 10000 rpms....in 2nd I opened the throttle...not quite WOT... and watched the needle sweep around and took it all the way through 4th...each time running it until 9K - 10K... it didn't feel like I was getting all the engine had to offer..even from the beginning. Then the noisy high speed whine started from then engine...and you know the rest. But after reading what has been posted it does make sense that the noise I heard was an injector that dropped down into the cylinder and rattled until it got caught between the piston.
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A little GAS is a good thing!
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted May 29, 2008 01:48 PM
Edited By: VincentHill on 29 May 2008 14:49
Not an Injector they are in the throttle bodies! The Valve losing a Keeper! My feeling is that the Person that did your engine may have been 1 tooth off on the cam timing. The only problem is you took your bike back to them and now if it is apart this is not going to be told to you! If the bike is still together pick it up and take it to someone you trust that will check your cam timing!
Did you ever say what year the bike is? Why did you install the 1270 kit? You do not sound like a Gear head or a Racer?
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted May 29, 2008 02:15 PM
Teaching moment:
I'm not at all pitching blame here, but if you'll re-read my break-in suggestions you'll note that I said to GRADUALLY increase the rpm and load. I say this because it can give you a tip that something is amiss before you lean on it hard for the first time. Too many people ride extra nice for 500 miles, then suddenly wail on it and discover a "problem".
Please get us pics so we can help you out. Collectively, Vince, Karl, and I have broken just about everything possible one way or another. We'll be able to do the autopsy from the pics.
Doug
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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heavy ak
Novice Class
Posts: 64
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posted May 30, 2008 08:28 AM
Vincent...the bike is a Y2K model..I installed the 1270 kit because I wanted to pick up some extra grunt because I do race...just not officially!
In Alaska we have roads that are in excess of 2 mile straights! We could cut Alaska in half and Texas would still be the 3rd largest state. My motorcycle club runs the piss out of every liter bike and I could tell you exactly what happens in various top speed matchups with various riders on board. I am 270lbs...up from last years 258... The bike is already back down at the shop...I was there waiting for them in the freakin parking lot when they opened.
As for my break in I didn't keep it lugging down below 3k and then suddenly give it the business! I kept varying the rpms in the 2 - 6k range...sometimes letting it sweep gently up there, sometimes holding it at 500 rpm levels for a minute in each gear, sometimes running it from idle up to 6k (towards the end) the darned thing comes off the ground at 4k if I hit it so I would bump it from time to time...but still never hammered on it. I NEVER felt the entire time that it had the power it should have exhibited...I always felt as if it was sputtering or something because it just didn't feel smooth. The on/off seesaw was a hell of a lot worse in 1st...tough to say but I don't expect to pay for any of this breakdown because I just picked it up from the shop on the 6th and the bill was a whopping $2600...
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A little GAS is a good thing!
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted May 30, 2008 09:12 AM
OK here's my completely wild ass guess at this point- detonation not enough fuel/too much timing. Show us the parts........
Sputtering or something? NOT at all acceptable on any new build. Should have stopped the process right there.
Re: Break in
RPM is not really relevant. LOAD is. 9500 in first at part throttle means little. 7500 in 5th at full throttle is a part killer if everything isn't right.
Again Light loads and low heat throught out the full or nearly full rom range for a few hours. Gradually increase the LOADS until you are able to make a full roll on (non speed shifted) pass runs first 1-3 then 1-4 then 1-5 and so on. If at any time something feels hinky, STOP the process, inspect, diagnose and FIX it before it's broke.
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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heavy ak
Novice Class
Posts: 64
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posted June 11, 2008 10:24 AM
Valves broke off...I'll post pics of the head later this week.
Psycho1122 nailed it....
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A little GAS is a good thing!
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted June 11, 2008 06:32 PM
ouch... more than 1?
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted June 12, 2008 07:49 AM
I hope your builder steps up for you or this is going to hurt!
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serius blk
Zone Head
Posts: 543
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posted June 12, 2008 03:20 PM
i was going to say the same thing about the valve in my 14 motor. Mine did the exact same thing. I didnt have the experience to just break the motor back down to find out. I cked the timing and spark plug. It just sounded as if it had a constant miss. A mistake i wont make again. One thing i can say. I wont every forget the sound the motor started making. Im sure you wont either.
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woppi
Pro
Posts: 1362
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posted June 13, 2008 12:22 AM
???
quote:
Valves broke off...I'll post pics of the head later this week.
Psycho1122 nailed it....
which valve ??
in ??
out ??
only one ??
woppi
____________
1st TFA Member / Austria !
" if it has wheels or titts - sometimes you will get troubles "
2000 Limited ZX12R NOS
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted June 13, 2008 08:40 AM
Valves don't just break. Something breaks them.
Show us the pistons, (domes and skirts) along with the chambers and broken valve(s) and maybe the rod bearings on the cyl where the valve failed.
Doug
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted June 23, 2008 09:49 PM
if it is more then one, I would agree with Vince that the builder was 1 tooth off, but the bucket/cam gap should have been checked...
lets see the pix's!
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200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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DJ_JONES
Novice Class
Turbo or NOS? Pick your poison
Posts: 46
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posted June 24, 2008 08:23 PM
Edited By: DJ_JONES on 24 Jun 2008 21:25
I am with Doug and Karl. Broken or busted many motors..... show us the pistons and head pics and we can help.
Good luck with trying to get a shop to pay for your failure. Its a performance engine now and all warranty ges out the window. Thats why I started building my own motors. If I could pay someone else to build something that I can blow up I was sure I could build something I could blow up a whole lot cheaper.....and I did.
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DJ JONES
Humble, TX
2000 ZX-12R (1290 + Wet kit)
2004 Hayabusa (Stage 1 Turbo)
Texas Shootout #1762 & #777
MDB Racing (HERE WE COME)
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 24, 2008 09:07 PM
DJ says:
quote:
...Thats why I started building my own motors. If I could pay someone else to build something that I can blow up I was sure I could build something I could blow up a whole lot cheaper.....and I did.
+1
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This moderator uses moderation in moderation
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted June 25, 2008 10:39 AM
Edited By: ninja12 on 25 Jun 2008 11:43
X2 !
Highlands Kawasaki provided the encourgagment for me.
Buddy spent thousands, never got 15 passes total out of 3 builds.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted June 25, 2008 08:10 PM
i can hardly afford parts let alone pay someone to build it, i had to learn how to do this stuff to go faster:P
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted June 25, 2008 09:05 PM
I am on the same boat for sure...
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200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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woppi
Pro
Posts: 1362
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posted June 25, 2008 11:14 PM
#
jep !
i think many of us !!!!!!!!!!!
woppi
____________
1st TFA Member / Austria !
" if it has wheels or titts - sometimes you will get troubles "
2000 Limited ZX12R NOS
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted June 26, 2008 05:21 AM
PICS?!? INFO!?!
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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Dane
Expert Class
Posts: 235
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posted July 03, 2008 08:31 AM
Edited By: Dane on 3 Jul 2008 09:33
quote:
i can hardly afford parts let alone pay someone to build it....] same here...........parts aren't cheap even @20% over cost
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