zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted March 10, 2008 08:19 PM
straight O2 . he he. Ever sprayed O2 out of a torch into a lawnmower ? Kaboooom !
All I know is theres a lot of speculation as to what a stock 12 piston will take, were going to find out.
I know weve melted forged pistons with as little as 60 hp on a wet shot, and a few turbo pistons as well. So even this is not a guarantee. But weve learned a bit since then.
  
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted March 10, 2008 08:44 PM
straight O2.. no thanks 
the nitrogen absorbs heat and carries it out with the exhaust gasses. straight O2 doesnt have this cooling effect.
Chad (aka skinart) was running a 90 shot on a stock 12. hes building it into a turbo bike now
looking forward to seeing results zrex. come on 8.50s
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted March 11, 2008 05:48 AM
No, never tried it on a lawnmower, I am sure it rattled real good.................................. When I was a kid I saw my dad shoot a little toward a buddy who was smoking a cigarette, It sure shot down to the filter fast!!!! Don't think I can remember him smoking around the garage again.
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TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted March 11, 2008 07:17 AM
Hey guys, don't forget about the extra .9 lb. of boost the Ram Air System gives you over static on the Dyno.
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted March 11, 2008 12:34 PM
quote:
quote:
The Stg 1 Turbo systems you're refering to on stock pistons have lower compression than stock, while using stock pistons. This is achieveable via thicker gaskets or spacer plate. The reason for lowering the compression is so that less heat is created.
Rrrrrrright.
Oh this is copied directly from velocitys website.
" Our custom system is designed to bolt straight on a stock bike with a stock motor. No need for any engine mods except heavy clutch springs.The first bike made 250hp at 8 psi of boost. The new 1000 is very smooth and controllable.
This bike went 8.63@170mph the very first weekend!
Click here for photos, details & pricing "
Theres several turbos at my mech shop that make a lot of hp on TOTALLY stock motors, and run every weekend.
Like I said were testing the 12 on big dope shots.
I wont say anymore.
lol, Ok. Good Luck.
I have a couple sets of stock ZX-12R pistons for sale if your interested.
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"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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tshultz
Zone Head
Posts: 556
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posted March 11, 2008 05:39 PM
looking forward to the results and your quarter mile times zrex
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted April 11, 2008 07:50 PM
Status?
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted April 11, 2008 08:26 PM
one thing I did notice, on my bike we were close to 90% on the duty cycle of the injectors, spraying the 60-65HP shot... and from what I have been told you do Not want to push it much farther then that...
fyi...
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted April 12, 2008 11:46 AM
 Edited By: zrexpilot on 12 Apr 2008 12:48
Status.
The bike made 43 hp on the first set-up for a totall of 201 hp. 5dg advance c.12 gas. bike went an 8.88 in the 1/4.@155 mph I tuned it up some more ( bigger jets) and it made 227.8 hp, 1 dg advance c12, ran it last night, could only muster an 8.97@ 158.xx mph.
I think my gearing was to low, the bike went through the gears just to fast, I think or hope it just needs some taller gearing so it will pull. This is what I encountered on another bike I pilot, a busa on dope, ran an 8.83 on it, lowered the gearing and it only went 8.97. too much gearing can hurt.
so right now I am making 67.8 hp over, 78-80% duty cycle.
Right now I am having problems with the clutch rod and actuator. Keep burning it up, 6 brock springs in it. It made it through last night with a mod we did to the rod, I hope it works.
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted April 12, 2008 05:06 PM
and heres a pic of the 4 nozzle set up
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MadMike
Moderator
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posted April 12, 2008 08:29 PM
that is cool!!!
are you using stock injectors?
if so I wonder why your not at 90% duty cycle on the injectors like I am?
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted April 13, 2008 05:54 AM
30-40 shot has me at 80% duty cycle max on the dyno....stock injectors, muzzy pump. I have pumped it up to near 50 once and did see it occaisionally flirt with 90s..just a blip though.
A.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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MadMike
Moderator
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posted April 13, 2008 10:54 AM
which makes sense... I am running a 60 shot now and it is right at 90...
and Ali... PM me your address so I can mail that bracket to ya!
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chevelle
Novice Class
Posts: 52
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posted April 13, 2008 04:47 PM
That nozzle plate is pretty slick.
Just curious if you made any pulls with less timing ?
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted April 13, 2008 06:45 PM
Edited By: zrexpilot on 13 Apr 2008 19:51
This is proving more difficult than I thought. But the bike is proving to be bullit proof.
I ran The Texas Motorcycle race series today. Its basically the harley drags with some braket racing and sport bike classes. I was too slow to run heads up as we had some outlaws and turbos. I was there basically to do some testing and get some racing in. I entered the bracket A class which is the fast braket class. I ran 4 rounds in open qualifying and then ran 5 rounds back to fucking back in eliminations and kicked there fooking asses.
Then raced the winner of the B class and won that too.
But the bike will not get out of the hole, with really no timing, c-12 gas and tall gearing it will not 60 foot, but when the nitrous hits hold the fuck on. 8.86 at 159.xx mph was my best.
I have to figure out what I need to do to get it to launch. 1st gear wot and its sky bound and I have to short shift, it I am thinking of an ignition module to add timing down low and then pull at wot. and thinking of a progressive box.
The 12 likes timing and gearing, without it It wont launch for shit.
If my shit was going to blow, today was the day it should have happened, I beat the shit out of it on nitrous and not a problem.
with the MPH its running it should be running 8.60's at the least.
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Texas12R
Zone Head
Posts: 545
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posted April 13, 2008 07:29 PM
I would like to see inside the cylinders.........as well as one could see with a bore scope
and just out of curiosity...how many passes do you expect to get out of a set of rod and
main bearings.....
Michael
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted April 14, 2008 05:35 AM
Too cool, That was in SA. I wanted to go check that out, but was inside finishing
up on taxes. Great weather for it. How was the track?
Q16 might give you a little pep down low, while keeping your octane up for the Juice.
Get it dynoed though so your not too lean. I know a fella in Austin who does that kind
of stuff on Saturdays, just for fun!
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted April 14, 2008 04:07 PM
I do believe the -04 injectors are bigger than previous years, I think I read that here. Maybe thats why its still on the low side as far as duty cycle.
How many passes do I expect ? huh ? I know nothing last forever but as far as the rods and bearing I dont think they should fail at all on this amount of nitrous. I am more worried about pistons, valve train, head gasket and cylinder studs.
If I go to the mile this thing should run pretty descent.
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turbobike
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted April 14, 2008 09:28 PM
We've got a spraybar setup on a 2002 ZX12R. It has a built Carpenter 1290 putting out about 200hp. With the NOS spraybar we hit 290hp with over 96% DC on stock cleaned and flowed injectors. Also the AFR was a bit lean at 13.2 on average through the powerband from 6500rpm to redline. Need better PC since we maxed out the PCIII which maxes out at 45% on furl. Aslo need more injector. Timing was at 8 degrees retard and we were using C16 mixed 50/50 with 91octane.
Timing doesn't need to be retarded as much as turbo apps in the lower jetting. You can thank having a aluminum head for that. A cool charge yes but eventually the cylinder pressures will be so high and the temps will go up fast assuming you run it as long 15 seconds at a time.
The problem with NOS is that unless you step up with additonal electronics such as Progressive controller and a Window switch, the rods will be put to the test.The rods take a beating from a sudden rush of 40hp gain from the point you activate it to the point you turn it off. These sudden changes in cylinder pressure can wreak havoc on stock rods. But imagine what a sudden 80hp+ will do with a progressive controller? Same goes for turbos running over 15psi. Now turbos don't come in as hard as nitrous but when you hit full boost, that's were the engine has to withstand sudden pressure changes. Using a 2 to 4 stage boost controller will save those engine parts from premature failure.
The stock piston rings take a huge beating as well. If you run a bit too lean and/or run crappy fuel, just a tiny bit of detonation can rip those rings right past the lands. Hence bye bye piston, etc.
I've seen plenty of guys get lucky with running twice as much recommended NOS or boost on stock applications and get away with it whether in a car or bike. Can it be done with proper tuning, yes. But after awhile you notice the NA performance will deteriorate sooner. And if you decide to tear one of those engines down, you will be terror struck on the wear of said parts. Check those bearings...ha..ha..
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RACE WHAT YOU BRUNG AND HOPE YOU BRUNG ENUFF
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted April 15, 2008 04:57 AM
Nitrous controller will be added just because its to much in 1st gear, I am also thinking of an ignition module so I can add some timing down low and pull at the top. this might help it get out of the hole.
window switch for what ?
My guess would be to cut nos before the limiter ?
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turbobike
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted April 15, 2008 05:52 AM
quote:
Nitrous controller will be added just because its to much in 1st gear, I am also thinking of an ignition module so I can add some timing down low and pull at the top. this might help it get out of the hole.
window switch for what ?
My guess would be to cut nos before the limiter ?
Yea and have it start a little later in the powerband. Depends on how hard or high you launch. A window from say 6500rpm to 500 rpms before shift point.
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RACE WHAT YOU BRUNG AND HOPE YOU BRUNG ENUFF
!!!!
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted April 16, 2008 02:37 PM
why not 2 stages? a lot easier on solenoids (doesnt pulse them like a progressive controller) 35 shot in first and have another 35 come on when you shift to second
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted April 16, 2008 04:40 PM
2 stages would be an option
what would be cool is if I could get one map for first stage and then it switch maps at second stage. Hmmmmm ?
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted April 16, 2008 05:49 PM
Edited By: KZScott on 16 Apr 2008 18:53
just build one of those boxes RR designed and fine tune it to the second shot on the dyno or with a data logger
no need for dual maps and switching on the fly.
might want to invest in an efir tho when nitrous activates so you can keep timing untill you need to pull some for spray
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted April 17, 2008 08:49 AM
I would map for both stages and just let it run rich on the first stage, for that 1/2 second.
KISS and safe. You could trigger the EFIR with the second stage because the
first stage is so small.
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