BALTIMORE410
Expert Class
Posts: 456
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posted March 06, 2008 01:47 AM
GOT NITROUS ???
LOOKING FOR FEEDBACK OF PEOPLE WITH NITROUS KITS WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THEM AND ARE U SATIFIED HOW HARD WAS THE INSTALL THINKING ABOUT GETTING A KIT CANT FIGURE OUT WHICH ONE I WANT I SEE ALOT OF DRY KITS ON THE MARKET HAVENT HEARD TO MANY WET MOST KITS RANGE FROM 20-40 SHOTS ANYTHING BIGGER ???? ALSO ABOUT WHAT PRICE RANGE ARE THEY GOING
   
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woppi
Pro
Posts: 1362
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posted March 06, 2008 04:12 AM
#NOS Wet kit
crack your fingers - than you can mount it easy !!
woppi
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1st TFA Member / Austria !
" if it has wheels or titts - sometimes you will get troubles "
2000 Limited ZX12R NOS
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted March 06, 2008 04:57 AM
How much do you want to spray?
Dry is simple and cheap for a small shot.
100+ hp with wet.
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baltimore410
Expert Class
Posts: 456
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posted March 06, 2008 07:15 AM
100 SOUND ABOUT RIGHT TO BE HONEST WITH U WITH A BIG BORE PLUS 100 SHOT I WAS THINKING ABOUT GOING TURBO BUT AAAAAAAH F*** THAT I WANNA TRY BIG BORE AND NITROUS FIRST THAN MAYBE JUUUUUST MAYBE TURBO THAT MR. TURBO KIT SURE LOOKS NICE
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted March 06, 2008 08:01 AM
 Edited By: zrexpilot on 6 Mar 2008 08:05
I dont think you even need a big bore. Run c16 pull some timing and spray the shit out of it,
people get 300 hp out of a turbo on a stock motor, theres no reason you cant do the same using nitrous. Nitrous actually cools the motor , turbos blow hot air. LOL.
You can probably get 80 hp on a dry shot, thats waht I am shooting for on a stock fuel system. I will find out by next week. Running 43 hp right now on a 4 nozzle dry kit.
Installation is nothing but time consuming, fairly easy, just takes time to do it right. Meaning all soldered and heat shrunk and concealed in a harness.
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted March 06, 2008 09:38 AM
Don't think most people would want to run more than a 70 shot on stock pistons.
A little dry shot is nice. What type of application would you be using it for? Street,
Drag, LSR???
What ever way you go, wet or "dry" be sure your set up is on target or it can get expensive.
I have a bit of a built motor with a little 70 shot (Muzzy Stealth Kit). I mainly ride on the street
and do the Texas Mile twice a year.
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TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted March 06, 2008 11:16 AM
why wouldnt you want to spray more on stock pistons. stg 1 turbo kits use stock pistons and push a 100+ hp on them.
I dont see a difference, detonation is the problem.
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted March 06, 2008 02:59 PM
Sup man. I shoot 20 shot down each ram air tube. I pull timing, run a rich map and have colder plugs. Been running it for 2.5 years with no problems, save for the transmission of course. 40 shot is very safe ... more in the 1/4 but not much more for a 1 mile run.
Dry nitrous kits are pretty cheap too....$300....often less depending on what you get. A gauge would be smart.
ZREX....you mention 100 HP on stock pistons....I would imagine you would need to lower the compression. Turbo kits usually lower compression whereas a stock motor would need to have its compression dropped for a 100 RWHP shot IMO.
A.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted March 06, 2008 03:27 PM
again why would you lower compression ? Thats silly. Compression is power. 10 lbs of boost on a 12 to 1 motor makes, say 250 hp. Lower the compression and it makes 220 hp, so you bump the boost to 15 psi and it makes 250 hp. Your right back to the same cranking compression.
Compression is power, the key is to build it and tune so it wont blow up.
The biggest baddest forced inducted motors make around 17-1 compression plus the forced induction. That would besome crazy cranking compression.
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stuart racing
Zone Head
N.H.R.A . Dragracing.
Posts: 999
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posted March 06, 2008 06:18 PM
You can run compression with N2O, just have to keep an eye on the timing(big time)...And run some high octane race fuel....I run a 14;1 comp.n2O kawi kz 1428cc with a 120hp shot wet,but I retard it about 20 degrees, and 116 race fuel.... High comp. pistons give you more material on the top of the piston before you burn through it,LOL......
P........
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Life in the Fast Lane..........
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted March 06, 2008 06:33 PM
Guess I am rather conservative.
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BALTIMORE410
Expert Class
Posts: 456
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posted March 07, 2008 02:08 AM
COLD FUSION LEVEL 2 KIT GOING FOR 539 AND IM GUESSING ITS ADUSTABLE BETWEEN 10-125 HP??? ANYBODY TRY THIS KIT
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BALTIMORE410
Expert Class
Posts: 456
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posted March 07, 2008 02:09 AM
ALSO CAN IT BE USED WITH A AIR SHIFTER???
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted March 07, 2008 05:59 AM
First what are you going to be doing with this bike ?
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted March 07, 2008 01:00 PM
I'm running a Cold Fusion Kit. Simple dry system. "Skinart" on the zx12 board (Chad) has pretty good deals. Cold fusion has a location in TX...took them 1 day to ship me nitrous jets (to the TX Mile).
A.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted March 09, 2008 09:35 AM
Let's clear a few things up...
1. Spraying a 100 shot of nitrous on stock pistons is 1000% guaranteed to blow it up on the street. I say "on the street" because a lot of fools try it on the dyno during a quick 3 second 4th gear pull and say, "It didn't blow, it must be safe!". When you run nitrous, it's always a trade off between duration or power. The set-up all depends on what type of racing you'll be doing.
2. Nitrous greatly increases compression, much like boost on turbos. Although it's possible to run on super high compression, you'd have to use super high octane and/or retard a LOT of timing..... which will put you around the same HP as you'd be at if you ran more timing and lower compression. Again, there's always a trade off.
3. Going with a big bore piston will decrease cylinder wall thickness and give you very little gasket material between pistons, making it MUCH easier to build heat and blow head gaskets. Going with a giant shot of nitrous with a big bore will require a lot more precautionary measures when building the engine than if you were to do it on stock bore.
4. Keep in mind, when you increase the horsepower of an engine, the rest of the engine will need to be beefed up to handle the increased power. These engines were designed to handle 160rwhp.... anything around 200rwhp and you'll need to upgrade the transmission, fuel system, clutch, chassis, etc. You can always scoot around doing all this, but you'll be sorry sooner than later.
5. What exactly is your budget like? The type of set-up you're describing is similar to mine and I've spent roughly $15,000 between the engine, nitrous, exhaust, bodywork, chassis, electronics, tuning, and of course labor. So expect to drop some serious coin when it's all said and done. Believe me, if you would have told me 2 years ago that I'd spend this much $$$ on my ZX-12R... I would have lauged and called you crazy. But that's what it took to get it done.
Good luck with your project.
If you're looking for an accomplished engine builder/tuner, I suggest ACE PEFORMANCE. They built mine and it's currently the Fastest All-Motor 1287cc ZX-12R in the country. 205.6mph in the standing mile..... and we're shooting for 209mph all motor this year with the 1287cc engine.
www.AcePerformanceRacing.com
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before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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BALTIMORE410
Expert Class
Posts: 456
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posted March 09, 2008 08:18 PM
street/drag bike
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted March 10, 2008 10:01 AM
quote:
Let's clear a few things up...
1. Spraying a 100 shot of nitrous on stock pistons is 1000% guaranteed to blow it up on the street.
again why do you say that.
Stg 1 turbo kits run 100+ hp on stock pistons.
You tell me whats the difference ?
Nitrous motors will actually run cooler than a turbo.
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Seth ZX12r UK
Expert Class
Posts: 238
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posted March 10, 2008 11:01 AM
nitrous is an oxidizer and burns the mixture much hotter than petrol alone, the 12r does not have forged pistons.
Any more than 40-50hp on stock pistons won't last long. (opinions vary)
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted March 10, 2008 12:06 PM
Edited By: zrexpilot on 10 Mar 2008 13:19
quote:
nitrous is an oxidizer and burns the mixture much hotter than petrol alone, the 12r does not have forged pistons.
Any more than 40-50hp on stock pistons won't last long. (opinions vary)
So is 15lbs of boost.
Its all forced induction. turbos force oxygen in, nitrous does the same. more air , more fuel, more power. turbos dont run any cooler than nitrous, I actually believe they run hotter, turbos force hot oxygen in, nitrous forces cold oxygen in.
Its all relative, a motor is nothing more than an air pump, more air more fuel more combustion.
doesnt matter how you do it, nitrous, turbo, or blower, they all force air in, air is nothing more than oxygen. You cannot make power by just adding fuel, it needs more air (oxygen)
Objective is to get the most air (oxygen) in and fuel and compress it. whether you build a motor, spray it or turbo it. 100 HP on a turbo is no diiferent than a 100 hp on spray.
In my opinion
We shot a temp guage to my cylinder on the dyno and actually watched it drop in temp at the moment of spray.
I will find out just how much a stock 12 will take, and I will let you all know. I am about to spray a lot more than I am now. More than likely will end up with 70-100 hp as this will probably be the max the stock fuel system will flow.
updates to come. and times.
Next step will be a fuel management system and tons more nitrous.
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted March 10, 2008 03:13 PM
Edited By: Phantom13 on 10 Mar 2008 16:14
The Stg 1 Turbo systems you're refering to on stock pistons have lower compression than stock, while using stock pistons. This is achieveable via thicker gaskets or spacer plate. The reason for lowering the compression is so that less heat is created.
Compression creates heat, and Boost/Nitrous increases compression. Therefore Boost/Nitrous creates HEAT. Cylinder temps increase, and if hot enough, will melt through a stock piston like butter.
This is why BIG nitrous and high boost Turbo engines have forged low compression pistons with thicker crowns to withstand more heat.
Using stock pistons on anything more than a 40 shot in the mile and 60 shot in the 1/4 mile is asking for trouble. Take this from a guy who's seen plenty of nitrous bikes blow up at the track and street.
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"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted March 10, 2008 04:12 PM
Edited By: zrexpilot on 10 Mar 2008 17:15
quote:
The Stg 1 Turbo systems you're refering to on stock pistons have lower compression than stock, while using stock pistons. This is achieveable via thicker gaskets or spacer plate. The reason for lowering the compression is so that less heat is created.
Rrrrrrright.
Oh this is copied directly from velocitys website.
" Our custom system is designed to bolt straight on a stock bike with a stock motor. No need for any engine mods except heavy clutch springs.The first bike made 250hp at 8 psi of boost. The new 1000 is very smooth and controllable.
This bike went 8.63@170mph the very first weekend!
Click here for photos, details & pricing "
Theres several turbos at my mech shop that make a lot of hp on TOTALLY stock motors, and run every weekend.
Like I said were testing the 12 on big dope shots.
I wont say anymore.
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tshultz
Zone Head
Posts: 556
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posted March 10, 2008 04:25 PM
what size nitrous shot are you spraying right now zrexpilot?
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted March 10, 2008 05:50 PM
We havent finsished tuning my home brew nitrous kit. I used the largest jets I had and it made 43 xtra HP. those were all the jets I had, went out and raced it and ran an 8.97 on the very first pass. Ended up with an 8.88.
I got bigger jets already, just waiting to go to the dyno.
good gas and timing is advanced. Yes timing is advanced.
No signs of detonation, I have a lot of room to play with more nitrous. We'll see how much this 12 will take. Oh this is a dry shot. The motor barely got to operating temp, my clutch didnt even get hot with several back to back passes, the clutch set up is working. No lock-up.
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted March 10, 2008 06:56 PM
Why run nitrous, just shoot some straight Oxygen in!
Maybe the Nitrogen/Oxygen ratio in one atmosphere is slightly higher then Nitrous Oxide. This may help buffer the oxygen and keep it from cutting through a piston as easy.
I think Air 21% Oxygen, 78% Nitrogen. Nitrous Oxide maybe close to 33 and 66% respectively if you get it from your dentist's office.
Plus A shot of nos without a progressive box tends to hit a little harder then a turbo.
Just my idiots two cents.
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