KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted January 23, 2008 03:58 PM
quote:
Just when I thought there might be something interesting to come back to this forum for and I see nothing has changed.
Maybe I'll check back in 2009
hey man. I have read a lot of your old posts. you should stick around and pass on more info 
i might have a couple interesting threads going in the dragbike zone for ya. I would like your input 
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
  
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted January 23, 2008 05:00 PM
quote:
quote:
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Ali, you kill me
I just found this thread. Wow! Pretty interesting stuff.
Ali, You going to be at Maxton in April? I going to try and make it.
Indeed I am planning on making the April meet at Maxton. Hope to see you as well as others there!
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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osti33
Needs a job
Posts: 2973
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posted January 23, 2008 09:31 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Ali, you kill me
I just found this thread. Wow! Pretty interesting stuff.
Ali, You going to be at Maxton in April? I going to try and make it.
Indeed I am planning on making the April meet at Maxton. Hope to see you as well as others there!
Good deal. Hope to see you there. Looking forward to meeting some new people as well.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted January 24, 2008 09:32 AM
I'm getting the distinct feeling that Ship is EXTREMELY jealous of Doug Meyer .... either that or he's unbelievably attracted to him 
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted January 24, 2008 01:18 PM
quote:
I'm getting the distinct feeling that Ship is EXTREMELY jealous of Doug Meyer .... either that or he's unbelievably attracted to him
lol, Nah... I don't think that's quite it.
I see exactly where Shiphteey is coming from.
Doug's definition of "stock out of the crate" seems to be very loose. To those who know exactly what the true "stock out of the crate" ZX-12R limitations are in terms of gearing and speed... it can be rather frustrating to see someone "play down" mods so that their speed appears more impressive.
So, at first this bike was claimed to be 100% crate bone stock with nothing more than a bolt-on Muzzy pipe and removed mirrors. Now that same bike has evolved into a bike that was hand picked and supplied by Kawasaki (aka ringer), lowered, taller profile rear tire. I wonder what other mods we may not know about.
I believe I read somewhere that they broke the bikes in on the dyno and did a routine valve clearance check/adjustment. Did someone redegree the cams while they were in there?
What was done to compensate for fuel? What kind of fuel was used?
See, all these things can fall under the realm of a "stock bike" if you bend the definition enough.
Doug, if you went a best of 199.1mph in 1.16mi with a 15mph tailwind and a 100mph running start at Maxton.... I believe you, just not without quite a few tricks because a 100% untouched stock ZX-12R can't do it with "just a pipe".
I think we both can agree on that.
____________
"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted January 24, 2008 02:42 PM
Well.. you guys can debate all of this as much as you want, but what Doug did and the records he set are fact... whether you like it or not...
I suggest you fish at a different hole cuz this subject's pretty lame.
Instead, let's talk about the moon landing being fake... and 9/11 never happened either.
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 24, 2008 03:02 PM
quote:
... and 9/11 never happened either.
WHATTTTT YOU SAY???????
ooooohhhhh nooooooooooo!!!!!!
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This moderator uses moderation in moderation
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted January 24, 2008 03:35 PM
lets stick with bikes....
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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narider
Expert Class
Posts: 246
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posted January 24, 2008 03:38 PM
The real fact is that anyone(ANYONE!) can be called on their shit depending on who's looking at it and in what way. MIke & Ali, in the short time you've been involved in running fast speeds(far less time actually then the short time the bike's you're doing it on were even produced), both of your teams have done things that can get you called on the carpet(not wanting to go there, but the facts remain and always will... as they do for most all of us somewhere along the line).
Well, if you're around as long as Doug has apperantly been(or many others that have been criticized for what you "know" to be wrong) and you get a chance to prove it in one way or another, you're chance for being called on your shit will increase that many times again.
And yes, the next guy(give or take... twenty years younger then you) will be the one doing it and you will be calling him a punk because he hasn't walked in your shoes or whatever your reasoning is that he "doesn't know what he's talking about" -(be sure to print this out and stick it in your wallet, it WILL become fact in your later years).
Will you be right? Will that "punk" be right? Yes on both counts! Will it teach either of you anything by happening this way... not a chance! Instead, enjoy that you have someone to give you something like this to think about, say your peice about it one time... and move on.
I didn't want to comment on this but I hate seeing people like yourselves that have the knoweldge and ability that many didn't at your experience level(in years). I don't know you well at all Phantom, but Shiphteey I know enough that I 100% truthfully believe he has a good heart and means well in what he puts out(no matter how incorrectly he does it most of the time), but stuff like this doesn't lend any credibility or value to that for either of you - and actually quite the oppositte most of the time.
Just my view.... and I know I probably don't know what I'm talking about either - unfortunately there was a couple just like you to let me know that, and a long time before that... I was where you are(and still am when I let my brain be led by my ass).
Todd- over & out!
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted January 24, 2008 04:28 PM
To Whom It May Concern:
Questioning the integrity of those whom you neither know, nor have the experience and accomplishments of, is not an exercise in wisdom. I'm not taking sides...just being philosophical.
The tree of disrespect does not bear much fruit.
Live and learn....or not.
Shane
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted January 24, 2008 05:44 PM
Fish, you couldn't be further from the truth. Not one drop of blood in me envies Doug, not in the least. I broke 200 my 3rd time at Maxton, 2nd time at TX and first time at Bonneville with a bone stock motor save for stiffer HP-robbing valve springs. That may not be amazing, but it certainly isn't whack either. That doesn't mean I don't respect him and what he has done though.
Todd, you know I listen to what you have to say on many subjects. However, lets not forget that all of this started from Doug's little comment about ceramic bearings. He is entitled to believe what he likes, but I shouldn't be slammed for stating that I don't believe his 199.1 on a "stock" ZX12. All of a sudden the entire discussion switched into analyzing his 199 mph pass. I put it to rest a while ago, but he decided to resurrect the past, so I reminded him and others that his 199 mph with ONLY the changes they claimed was COMPLETE BS. As you can see persistence pays off. The more you ask very specific quesitons the more he leaked out SOME of the truth. His "stock" bike had multiple modifications that were conveniently left out so he could make himself, Muzzy, and the ZX12 appear better/faster than it really was.
In the past we gave it a rest, his belief and mine...so why did he feel the need to resurrect the issue again? You can't tailgate someone and not expect to get brake checked sooner or later. Doug and I are quite different as you can see. I give many ZX12 guys as much information I can to get them going as fast as I can. I am not insecure in my accomplishments and don't mind if some other ZX12 guy comes along and also runs 200+. I don't feel they need to kiss my ass just because they are the new kid on the block nor do I feel like I need to try and lie about how I ran a said number to make myself look better/smarter/faster than I really am. I don't feel the need to hide things. I put it out on the table and let the chips fall where they may.
Truthfully I KNOW there are people on here that are glad I pressed the issue with Doug. They too KNEW there was no way in hell he could have gone 199 with only a pipe and removed mirrors, NO WAY. Do I mind that they remain quiet and behind the scenes? Meh, a little. But I respect their anonymity and realize we all have different approaches given a situation we're faced with.
Not everyone may like Phantom or I but we are no BS when it comes to this stuff. We didn't just run the 12, run a number and put it away just because we broke 200. We have gone out there over and over banging our heads to chip away fractions of a mile and hour, often times reporting our real world findings back to others on the board, risking our motors, lives and freedom in the process.
I am done with the whole "Doug - 199" issue. I will give him the benefit of the doubt, as stated, its "possible" given what he has confessed but lets remember that there were things intentionally left out in order to play up the run. However if him and others continue with sideways remarks I can't be expected to just sit there and take it.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted January 24, 2008 06:55 PM
I must have missed the episode of Survivor when DM won the immunity necklace....
my mistake.
____________
"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 24, 2008 11:30 PM
well said!
quote:
The real fact is that anyone(ANYONE!) can be called on their shit depending on who's looking at it and in what way. MIke & Ali, in the short time you've been involved in running fast speeds(far less time actually then the short time the bike's you're doing it on were even produced), both of your teams have done things that can get you called on the carpet(not wanting to go there, but the facts remain and always will... as they do for most all of us somewhere along the line).
Well, if you're around as long as Doug has apperantly been(or many others that have been criticized for what you "know" to be wrong) and you get a chance to prove it in one way or another, you're chance for being called on your shit will increase that many times again.
And yes, the next guy(give or take... twenty years younger then you) will be the one doing it and you will be calling him a punk because he hasn't walked in your shoes or whatever your reasoning is that he "doesn't know what he's talking about" -(be sure to print this out and stick it in your wallet, it WILL become fact in your later years).
Will you be right? Will that "punk" be right? Yes on both counts! Will it teach either of you anything by happening this way... not a chance! Instead, enjoy that you have someone to give you something like this to think about, say your peice about it one time... and move on.
I didn't want to comment on this but I hate seeing people like yourselves that have the knoweldge and ability that many didn't at your experience level(in years). I don't know you well at all Phantom, but Shiphteey I know enough that I 100% truthfully believe he has a good heart and means well in what he puts out(no matter how incorrectly he does it most of the time), but stuff like this doesn't lend any credibility or value to that for either of you - and actually quite the oppositte most of the time.
Just my view.... and I know I probably don't know what I'm talking about either - unfortunately there was a couple just like you to let me know that, and a long time before that... I was where you are(and still am when I let my brain be led by my ass).
Todd- over & out!
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This moderator uses moderation in moderation
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 24, 2008 11:31 PM
+1
quote:
To Whom It May Concern:
Questioning the integrity of those whom you neither know, nor have the experience and accomplishments of, is not an exercise in wisdom. I'm not taking sides...just being philosophical.
The tree of disrespect does not bear much fruit.
Live and learn....or not.
Shane
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This moderator uses moderation in moderation
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted January 25, 2008 05:06 AM
How many of you older board members remember the thread I started in 2000 on LABusas right after the article about the 199 mph run hit the news stands?
I believe the title of the thread was, "Was Muzzys 199 mph run BS?"
I suppose, now looking back at the title of that thread, I should have worded it differently. Doug took it as a direct attack on his credibility at the time. I tried to explain that I was just opening a dialog on the topic and how my bike on the dyno hit the rev limiter at 196 mph, so how could this be possible? But it opened up a can of worms and I think that thread has always limited our dialog to this day. But it certainly wasn't my Intention to question the integrity of Muzzys or Doug M.
Anyway, the general conclusion at the time was tire slippage on the dyno. Fair enough. I had never been to a top speed event so all I had was dyno MPH.
I don't think Muzzys or Doug intentionally did anything to the bike to "cheat" but they may have unknowingly altered the overall drive ratio by changing tires even thou they were both "the same size".
Even the factory OEM tires of the same brand and size can be different from the manufacturers same series and size replacement tire.
So I suppose the tire they put on could have made a difference.
So, the question is... what would the difference need to be in tire circumference to make a 3 mph difference?
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted January 25, 2008 06:46 AM
quote:
So, the question is... what would the difference need to be in tire circumference to make a 3 mph difference?
With stock gearing, a change in diameter of around .5" (about 1.6" in circumference), should be more than enough to run 199.
Shane
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 25, 2008 08:24 AM
 Edited By: entropy on 25 Jan 2008 08:40
remember also that the tire grows in circumference with speed.
just 2 tenths of an inch growth in radius give a lil more than 3mph increase at 11600rpm
We did a test on JC's dyno 4-5 years ago and it was very easy to see the tire growth when not strapped.
The tail visibly lifted.
Not huge, maybe 3/8" inch??? don't exactly remember.
Maybe JC remembers. He's not as old as me.
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This moderator uses moderation in moderation
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted January 25, 2008 08:48 AM
quote:
Maybe JC remembers. He's not as old as me.
LOL, its not the age  its from events years ago that you dont remember now...
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted January 25, 2008 09:08 PM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 26 Jan 2008 08:15
none of it ever really happened... in fact "Doug Meyer" isn't even real... he's a Mexican Filipino named "Moug Deyer" and he lives in Tahiti.
Shit... secret's finally out for all you doubters! 
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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Seth ZX12r UK
Expert Class
Posts: 238
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posted January 26, 2008 06:07 AM
lmfao DM the 2008 conspiracy files.....did he do it or was it a cuban mafioso on a 1350cc grassy knoll?
shi'teey when you understand how ideas are tools, you
will be ready for the toolkit.
Don't listen to what "they" Say, Look at what they Do.
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted January 26, 2008 10:38 AM
Entropy, do you not think that others are experiencing tire growth too when quoting the speeds they hit?
Fish, I never said the speed never really happened. I guess it makes it easier to erroneously sum up what someone says, defeat that argument and claim victory? That would be a straw man fallacy. What I did say was that it didn't happen AS STATED. He already confessed there was more to it than initially implied...why keep going on about it?
Seth, you feel the need to make personal insults as far as my screen name goes? Tell me Seth, how fast have you gone on your 12? How many passes have you made to be able to claim what it does with "just a pipe"? Do you run the flyers out there? If so then you should already KNOW unless you just don't go that fast. Other 12 guys at the UK flyers can verify what a bone stock 12 hits with just a pipe & no mirrors. I listen to what people say and observe what they do...if it doesn't add up then I question it. Nothing wrong with that. I don't just blindly swallow a claim like others may. Instead of throwing out personal insults why don't YOU add to the discussion with any real world experience you have that would be RELEVANT to the discussion...hmmm? Or have you not yet cracked the 196 barrier either? If not, then why are you talking?
Like I said before I'm done w/the doug 199 thing, but if you and others want to continue the discussion or continue in a condescending tone as if you know WTF is really up then I'll happily keep talking with you. Remember Seth, you have already thrown the first personal insult at me, don't get mad when it comes back your way.
A.
____________
Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted January 26, 2008 11:42 AM
Doug Meyer's High-Speed ZX-12R Run NEVER HAPPENED!"
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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Ken 12r
Novice Class
Posts: 86
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posted January 26, 2008 11:57 AM
Although I have been lurking here for years I have not registered here because I could resist posting here along with all the other sites I visit but dont get envolved in,and I know Seth and Keith and most of the other UK guys because its a small field.
For information my stock motored B model managed 202 mph at woodbridge on stock 18x46 gearing but fitted with a 190/55 Metzler Racetec in September last year in fair conditions without hitting the limiter,not with me riding but it got there none the less.This bike does have some weight saving items but ran at stock height.
My A model has gone over 208mph at two venues,again not with me riding but again stock motor and 19x46 gearing and the same tyre.
The reason I registered is to ask why you more recent Zx12 guys fight so much between yourselves when you should be fighting the common enemy THE BUGLY.
If a legend like Doug Meyer says its true,believe it because its now historical fact and nothing you might say will change things that are written in stone.
Now I know Doug does not need me to stick up for him and neither does Seth who has exceeded 200mph on his stock motored 12 and his 14 several times,but there you are so feel free to flame me
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www.uklandspeedracingassociation.co.uk
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted January 26, 2008 12:49 PM
Nice first post Trouble Maker 
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted January 26, 2008 12:52 PM
Fish is just stirring the pot at this point. DM already stated he switched the tire, end of discussion really.
Ken, I wanted it to be known that his pass could not have been done with "just a pipe". He admitted it and thats that. It is not my intention to "fight" among 12 riders. I want every 12 out there to go as fast as possible and beat as many 1000s, Busas and 14s as possible...but false information only HURTS the 12R community which is why I wanted clarification.
A.
____________
Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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