supra5677
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posted November 20, 2007 07:51 AM
Doug M on ignition? or to Board
To Doug M:
As I read through the old threads.. Y2K yielded 6-8 rwhp at all rpm's by advancing the timing 5 degrees from the stock setting.. ( he did this the old fashion way via modifying the stock rotor).
Also after a lengthy conversion with Brock Davidson via email he was able to get good gains by advancing the timing 7 degrees after 10,500 rpms.. With his pipe and tuning with stock motor he yielded 188.6 RWHP at 11,625 ( stock rev limited)
Correct me if I'm wrong but as the rpms increase it is harder for the ignition system to keep up with the igniting and burning of the mixture.. This is why the timing has to be advanced..
The max ignition advance in the ecu is 55 degrees.. ( the limit in the programming). The max timing at full throttle and rev limiter is 32.5 degrees BTDC.. I understand over advancing the motor will detonate the piston.. I myself ran 5 degrees everywhere and then 7 degrees to 12600. Good performance no negative effects as yet.. Is the timing made conservative to begin with?
supra
   
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted November 20, 2007 09:20 AM
Supra, Kevin at Stock, Mild to Wild in Jacksonville put an ignition advance in my bike when he tuned it. He went 4.5 degrees with a mechanical advance and got me 181 hp at the rear wheel. If I remember correctly, he didnt want to go more than that, as I would have to run some type of race fuel in the bike to keep it from spark knocking. the 4.5 degrees kept me running on high octane pump gas.
Doug will definately know more about it than me though..I am no mechanic....
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supra5677
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posted November 20, 2007 10:25 AM
what kind of pipe? akra or muzzy? or maybe even yosh or hindle?
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KZScott
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posted November 20, 2007 11:23 AM
supra, what octane are you using? 93? if so, maybe that much advance and 87 would not work? (possibly why the bike may be setup conservative from the factory?)
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00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted November 20, 2007 12:25 PM
was running 93 Octane, with a fully Ti Muzzy exhaust, K&N filters, 4.5 degree advance,with some other little tweaks...
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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supra5677
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posted November 20, 2007 12:41 PM
In California running 91oct runs strong...
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johnnycheese
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posted November 20, 2007 04:35 PM
heck I have gained 4 ponies with seperate cyl mapping and no timing
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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ninja12
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posted November 20, 2007 07:45 PM
quote:
heck I have gained 4 ponies with seperate cyl mapping and no timing
adding extra fuel to the center cyl? that was normal with the better carb jet kits.
How much?
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Seth ZX12r UK
Expert Class
Posts: 238
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posted November 21, 2007 12:46 AM
quote:
heck I have gained 4 ponies with seperate cyl mapping and no timing
any % numbers for this?
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entropy
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posted November 21, 2007 03:56 AM
quote:
heck I have gained 4 ponies with seperate cyl mapping and no timing
that ole johnnycheese is ALWAYS experimenting.
Nostradamus predicted that when JC runs outa enthusiasm, the world is gonna end.
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted November 21, 2007 08:22 AM
lmfao@ entropy......
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dougmeyer
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posted November 21, 2007 09:42 AM
My main problem with discussions like this is that when you are searching for the edge of anything, you will somtimes slip over. That can cost a "hobbyist" money. Every combination is slightly different. Fuel is a HUGE wild card when it comes to detonation. Temerature comes into play (both outside air and engine coolant). One or two (timing) degrees can scuff a piston before you know it.
Regarding octane and engines like the 12, modern four valve engiens with smallis bores and a pent roof chamber are EXTREMELY resistant to detonation. That, coupled with the fact that manufacturers try to sell a "worldwide" design, wherein all types and grades of gasoline must be tolerated, means that they build engines that are conservative in this area. Under optimum conditions, there is a fair amount of room in the timing curve, but you are approaching the edge that they want to keep you away from.
What about the guy who ends up riding through the desert on a hot day in (name the country) and needs gas, has to buy 87 (or worse). They don't want that guy to be hollering 'cause he holed a piston in the middle of nowhere.
As long as you MAP it for your combination, fuel and intended use, I wouldn't be surprised with an up to 5 deg increase in total advance.
Remember race fuels burn SLOWER than "ordinary" gasolines.
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Ozzy
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posted November 22, 2007 06:16 AM
quote:
What about the guy who ends up riding through the desert on a hot day in (name the country) and needs gas, has to buy 87 (or worse).
Death Valley, Stove Pipe Wells gas station. Been there done that. . .
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"It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses......HIT IT!"
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