twista
Zone Head
" Get up, and Stay up ! "
Posts: 797
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posted November 17, 2007 04:58 PM
degreed cams?
back in the day i had a gixxer 1100 degreed cams,, dyno stage 3 and D and D pipe stock geared K and Ns,, and this bike i pulled a 10.88 @ 129 MPH it was a 87 model
to degree a 12rs cams,, is it worth pulling it apart to do versus the gain or lack there of,, or is it not worth it? and is there anything else that SHOULD be done while opened up?
just wondering if i can get any more performance out of the bike,, what should i expect to see if done etc,, any input?
BTW that setup on the 1100 i had i rode to the track in Las Vegas and spanked air shifted wheelie bared bikes all night long, that were trailered there, they were running 11.2s which i would do not even trying,, some cat named slim stevens did the work! X roadrace guy
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted November 18, 2007 09:55 AM
Your going to have to decide if its worth it or not.. To some folks 1 horsepower is worth it! Others at least 5 to 10 to justify the work.. As far as lobe centers.. Most bikes don't come with the factory 104/102 lobe center ( cams don't come with adjustable gears).. If your bike came with 104/102 LC then box stock it should dyno at 162 STD or 156 SAE on the dyno.. If it dynos much lower then your cam timing isn't optimal.
With stock displacement motors I recommend 105/103 (Muzzys) or 105/105.. I did a post on this a while ago.. 5 degrees of ignition timing yields 6-8 RWHP everywhere I recommend it. Since your in there you might want to go with a .018 thin cometic gasket..
Cam timing can yield anywhere from 2 to 10 horsepower depending on how off you cam timing was to begin with.. Follow?
supra
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted November 19, 2007 09:21 AM
Supra hit it on the head.
The factory has a target number and you gain depends on how far your engine is from that
target. If you were dead on you won't gain 1 hp.
Supra what are your recommeded numbers for a 1270 and 1375?
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted November 19, 2007 02:39 PM
Reminds me of my old 89 GSX-R 750 with an 87 1052cc 1100 motor in it.
I had a full yosh, K&N pods (small stock 34mm carbs), +5 ignition advancer and jetted...it would go 11.0s @ 129 all night long...I would battle R1s that did 10.9s...all night.
I had -1 up front and +3 in the rear. Needless to say it was a bit more unruley than my zx12 in the 1st couple of gears.
A.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted November 19, 2007 06:41 PM
to Ninja 12r for 1270 or 1375 I recommend 105/105 or 105/107.. The larger displacement motors like the exhaust cam to start late..
should work well..
supra
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted November 20, 2007 07:51 PM
Thanks,
I think muzzy likes 105/105 also.
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biggmoinc
Zone Head
Posts: 747
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posted December 28, 2007 06:52 PM
Have u ever heard of a 00 12r with a 121/109 or vice versus. I just had my engine rebuilt from top to bottom with adj cam sprockets / 1270 kit/ head mildly done. These r numbers he said were in it. How could this even b.
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted December 28, 2007 07:31 PM
let me check Doug Meyers article on lobe centers.. I will get back to you...
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted December 28, 2007 07:35 PM
From Doug Meyers article 98 to 112 is the usable range for lobe centers.. Doesnt mean your wrong.. Your intake cam is retarded a bunch based on what you said. How does it run?
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted December 28, 2007 10:31 PM
Actually, his exhaust cam is advanced a bunch, not retarded.
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted December 29, 2007 07:05 AM
I don't think its worth it..........................................but if you got to do it, drop in some 1290 pistons as well and it'll start to pull ya a little.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted December 29, 2007 11:46 AM
smaller numbers on the intake means advanced correct? larger numbers on the intake means retarded correct?
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biggmoinc
Zone Head
Posts: 747
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posted December 29, 2007 04:50 PM
just got bike back and cant run hard till break in. Prior to build the bike ran 171 with 1270 kit. seems low as far as reading people saying they got that with just a pipe n pc3usb. I did the kit last year and now had to rebuild the bottom end. This time the head was mildly done also. those were the cam numbers prior. now i believe he has them set to 105/103.
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted December 30, 2007 04:46 PM
 Edited By: krexken on 30 Dec 2007 16:47
Wait a minute. Even though it´s kinda backwards(since you degree the exhaust first) I thought the first number was the intake?
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biggmoinc
Zone Head
Posts: 747
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posted December 30, 2007 05:17 PM
i m just going by what was said by the mechanic, he gave me the two numbers and i cant remember which is which, however i know from the other post that the numbers seemed ridiculously off
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted December 30, 2007 07:10 PM
Edited By: entropy on 30 Dec 2007 19:12
quote:
Wait a minute. Even though it´s kinda backwards(since you degree the exhaust first) I thought the first number was the intake?
Ken,
i always hear it (and say it) int/exh.
And as you say, i always hear about setting exhaust first but cannot see what difference it would make if you degreed the intake first??????
The cam sprockets are fixed wrt the cam chain & crank, and degreeing the cams is just rotating cams wrt the sprocket and thus with respect to the crank.
I dunno why the exh should be done before the intake???
:scratchinghead
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Hells Dark Lord
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted December 31, 2007 06:35 AM
quote:
just got bike back and cant run hard till break in. Prior to build the bike ran 171 with 1270 kit. seems low as far as reading people saying they got that with just a pipe n pc3usb. I did the kit last year and now had to rebuild the bottom end. This time the head was mildly done also. those were the cam numbers prior. now i believe he has them set to 105/103.
if you are talking 171 hp with a 1270 kit, than I would say something is not right, I am on my 2nd zx12, and both after tuning with PC and full exhaust were over 180 hp. And I know a few guys that were pushing close to 200hp with big bore kits, either 1270's or 1290's.
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted December 31, 2007 09:05 AM
Depends on the dyno. Maybe a Factory Pro? Could be set up for the street with low compression. What did it run before the work was done on it?
Always good to run a base and then you can see the results of any work done on the bike ..................................................................................But just my two cents.
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biggmoinc
Zone Head
Posts: 747
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posted December 31, 2007 02:55 PM
152 stock, 161 with muzzy tit and pc3, 171 with 1270 kit and 240 tire kit. Now bottom end rebuilt with head mildly done. The original post was asking if anyone heard of such crazy numbers for the cams. Like i said i dont know what was first or last just that the hp up til now was low. Will not know what the dyno numbers r until after 600 miles or so. Probably wont be anytime soon being the weather is what it is. But i did put 60 on it today. It rode very well even though i didnt go over 6k. However, I havent rode it in the last 2 months. Also i have heard of friendly dyno numbers, but i would rather read low and be correct than high n have a big ego
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
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KZScott
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high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted December 31, 2007 03:18 PM
the 240 tire kit is killing the hp. adds a lot of rotating weight!
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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biggmoinc
Zone Head
Posts: 747
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posted December 31, 2007 05:30 PM
I am sure of that. I put it on and its very heavy, however losing 10 or more hp is unlikely
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted December 31, 2007 05:47 PM
What does your entire rear wheel assembly, rotor, sprocket carrier, sprocket, tire...the whole thing...what does it weigh?
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Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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biggmoinc
Zone Head
Posts: 747
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posted December 31, 2007 06:08 PM
i couldnt even say. just knew it was heavier
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted December 31, 2007 09:12 PM
i have heard that a heavy shinko can knock off 5 hp on a dyno run compared to a regular street tire, and your setup is going to add a lot more rotating weight than a shinko vs street tire right?
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted January 01, 2008 01:19 AM
Drivetrain inertia has no bearing on the engine's output. However, dynos that use calibrated inertial devices to deduce power from angular acceleration can be affected by drivetrain inertia changes.
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