FinalVelocity
Expert Class
Posts: 150
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posted July 02, 2002 09:34 AM
 Edited By: FinalVelocity on 2 Jul 2002 10:35
Update on head shake
Well I changed the front tire with another Michelin. The shake has gone about 50%, but it still is there. Now I found out something when the mechanic took the front wheel off. He'd put the bike on a stand, and guess what!The steering was notchy in 3 places! It was also tight - I could not rotate it freely from end to end. Man! I was pissed - that dealer I took it to (Kensington Motorsports) sure ripped me off. He claimed everything was right on the front end and the steering head bearings was OK. Betcha he never even put the bike on a stand - the thieving *%@!&^@!)!
No wonder I've not only been experiencing headshake at 50-60 but also this explains the vagueness in the steering. I've taken it to another dealer(a small shop in Howell,MI), who was recommended. He's gonna look at the bike next week and lemme know what he thinks.
Damn - if Kawasaki is'nt gonna replace this I think I'll have to eat the cost and get the bearings replaced.
  
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Otis
Needs a job
Captain Kickstand
Posts: 3028
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posted July 02, 2002 09:58 AM
Row, did you take it Dean at Jacks?
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted July 02, 2002 10:21 AM
This is what I warned about!
Many have experienced loose head bearings when they took delivery of their 12Rs. The thing is that the torque specs are VERY LOW and over tightening can easily happen and TRASH the bearings!
Steering Section for '00 A1 & '01 A2 models
Page 13-2 Exploded View
Stem Head Nut (the chrome allen nut) - 36 ft/lb
Stem Locknut - 88 INCH/lbs (7.34 ft/lb)
Stem Nut - 14.5 ft/lb
Handlebar Bolt (on the inside end) - 25 ft/lb
Fork Pinch Bolts (upper and lower) - 14.5 ft/lb
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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beansbaxter
Needs a life
Posts: 5911
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posted July 02, 2002 10:28 AM
Is this a problem to be concerned about on the 2002 models? Has Kawi warned dealers about overtightening the bearings?
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FinalVelocity
Expert Class
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posted July 02, 2002 10:46 AM
No Otis
My RD mechanic recommended Tom @ Howell Cycle. I took it there and left it. Spoke to him today - at first he did'nt want to take bikes that were'nt purchased at his dealership. Anyways he said he would look at it next week.
If he hoists the bike up and rotates that steering, he can't miss the notchy condition. Question is, is this enough reason for Kawasaki to agree to replace it?
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted July 02, 2002 10:47 AM
quote:
I haven't had time ...... Be aware that an over tightened head will cause a shake also, it goes one direction and instead of relaxing and straightening out it binds and then over corrects.. Bad Bad Bad. The tire brand is not the problem.....
Sure don't listen....
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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FinalVelocity
Expert Class
Posts: 150
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posted July 02, 2002 10:54 AM
Yeah my bearings were loose at first!
Redelk - my bearings were really loose when Wilson and I pulled out the top triple to check them. Wilson was surprised when the top nut just came loose by hand! He tightened them to 20 lb-ft. But my bike's at 14000 miles right now. Dunno when it was new - this might have gotten loose over time.
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redelk
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posted July 02, 2002 05:44 PM
He said "top nut".... hee hee...
Are you talking about the Top Nut, Lock Nut or the actual Steering Stem Nut? Since the top nut is an allen nut ("cap"?), I'm guessing that your talking about the lock nut or steering stem nut. I'm also guessing that a spec for that lock nut being less then 7.5 ft/lbs, just a tad more then finger tight is about right. Heck, 14.5 ft/lbs for the steering stem nut isn't even a "half-grunt" with a ratchet.
Usually, a rubber mallet and flat blade screwdriver has always been the poor man's tools of choice for the fairly critical setting (guilty as charged and yes I know there is a relatively cheap attachment for torque ratchets... just too lazy to find one).
Converting the precise measurements into "mallet/screwdriver numbers", I'd guess that one medium effort tap on the steering stem nut would equal 10 to 20 ft/lbs. With all the variables from one torque wrench to another (especially at those LOW numbers), If it was the steering stem nut that Wilson's set at 20 ft/lbs, I'd figure that would be okay.
The lock nut would work out to just a gentle tap to snug it to the steering stem nut and no more. A small dab of blue LocTite might even call for even a lighter tap. The rub in all of this is that I'd think it would kinda difficult not to have some effect on the steering stem nut's torque, when tightening the lock nut over 10 ft/lbs. Even if it appears that the steering stem nut has not moved.
I could be WAY OFF base on this, but I'm just thinking of "possibilities", "causes" and "effects", to suggest. Though I've either inspected or repacked the head bearings everytime I've taken my forks off, I did not have the loose problems others have had (and they are many in number). I also don't do wheelies (at least not intentionally) or other "activities that might cause undo stress on the bearings. Putting my fat ass on the bike doesn't count! My point is that I'm just theorizing from what I've hear, read or seen.
Bean, me personally, I haven't heard anyone one mention it on the '02 models. The top nut is different and uses what's called a "claw washer" instead of a lock nut above the steering stem nut (which that nut is the same). Maybe that's how KHI has "quitely" addressed the problem. The "claw washer" most likely eliminates any possibilities of over (or under) torque. I'd think that since the upper triple clamps are also different, this "fix" probably wouldn't work on the A series ('00 & '01).
Again, just guessin'!
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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FinalVelocity
Expert Class
Posts: 150
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posted July 03, 2002 07:13 AM
Edited By: FinalVelocity on 3 Jul 2002 13:28
Yeah! Top steering head nut!
Hell Yeah I did mean the top nut...maybe! To be more specific I meant the top steering head nut. Correct me if I'm wrong but there are two - right? They should be torqued to 14.5 -but were waay lose for 14.5 lb-ft. Now Wilson said both he and his Boss (who's been a mechanic for 30+ years) also felt that 14.5 lb-ft was waay to loose a spec for the steering head nut on a heavy bike like the 12. So I dunno. Anyways I'm hoping Kawasaki agrees to replacing my steering head bearings. I'm also gonna do a fork maintenance this time - been 3 years and 14K miles.
That goddamn steering HAS to be fixed...RIGHT. The 12 Sucks with bad steering.
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redelk
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Please... speak to the hand.
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posted July 03, 2002 02:17 PM
I'm not one to question a knowledgable mechanic, BUT...
... first things first.
The nut that is directly above the "dust cover" is the one that is 14.5 ft/lbs. The one that is on top of that nut (but looks identical) is the lock nut and is 7.34 ft/lbs.
Now for the "second guessing"...
Again, I'm GUESSING here, but I would figure that by first tightening the stem nut to 20 ft/lbs AND THEN tightening the lock nut to 20 ft/lbs also... would have some sort of effect on the torque of the stem nut. Then again, maybe not. The only reason I have in saying this is due to the lower torque spec of the lock nut.
In reality, I might be giving more credit to the KHI designers and engineers then they are due. All the same, there has to be some sort of "method to their madness", even if it's wrong. Also, I can't help but believe that due to the fact that they wear the little white lab coats and get the big checks... they know far more the I do when it come to the logic behind having the lower torque spec on the lock nut.
Hell! I don't even have a tool for that nut that would attach to anything that would measure the applied torque. So, what the fuck would I know?  I AM semi-serious in saying that. I have little to no experience on such design and application issues and am equally clueless when it comes to how "exact" these specs have to be (either way - tight or loose), before any damage is actually done to the bearings or their races.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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