KZScott
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high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted July 10, 2007 06:59 PM
home drilled clutch hub?
Other than just bigger holes in the hub, how else is the muzzy clutch kit better than stock? it comes with thicker clutch plates? (HD) is that really needed? also it comes with 3 springs and a hub bearing sleeve, but i can get the springs from a buddy if i want to try them....
basically im wondering if its worth it to get the muzzy kit if i plan on getting a lock up around the time i put on nitrous....(probably mtc from what i've been reading)
would just drilling the current holes in the stock hub to bigger "muzzy sized" holes be fine for getting enough oil to the current plates?
thx!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
  
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted July 10, 2007 09:09 PM
What holes do you think are "just bigger"? The stock hub has no radial holes at all.
The muzzy kit specifically directs oil out from the center and through the hub between the plates. It also includes the thicker steels and has a different stack.
If you copied it excatly you'd get the same result. If not, it's doubtful you will acheive the same reliability and longevity as the Muz setup.
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted July 11, 2007 05:55 AM
oh....dont i feel like a dumb ass lol.
I had a guy take my clutch apart and i havent seen it yet, and just looking at the parts diagrams, i thought i saw holes in the stock piece.
what exactly would i have to drill to make my own?
VH, you out there? 
thx!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted July 11, 2007 06:26 AM
If you have a (properly) drilled hub, all you need to do is cross drill the "pusher" .040 just behind the needle bearing flat and just in front of the pusher stop.
Since the pusher is hollow, you will get a metered, dual spray of oil inside the hub.
____________
You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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VincentHill
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posted July 11, 2007 07:20 AM
YES I am and like I said somewhere I had "ALL" of the Muzzy measurements including the Hole Sizes and Location. I got a diamond Bit to Drill the sleeve and then Notch the Bearing SLeeve to allow the oil in. WHen I got dinished, everything works perfectly, but when I needed more plates, I Bought the Muzzy assembly which to me was "CHEAPER" than to do it myself! Everyone here knows I hate to spend a penny! BUY the Muzz Man kit!! I also suggest you get some thin steel Plates to add to the Clutch pack height when you have wear but the Frictions are still good! 2 - 1.4 MM is 2.8 and If you are down by .4 this will make you Plus .4
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted July 11, 2007 11:33 AM
ahhh.. great info im still learning how all this works, i was hoping that i could get away with not buying the kit (just do some drilling to get more oil) as the guy that took it apart said the plates were all good, just a bit worn(add an extra plate like you said to bring the height back), and they were all dry as a bone! 
buying a billet basket is going to cut into the bike funds enough allready
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted July 11, 2007 02:07 PM
I will tell you a little story! I worked for Firestone Tire in the early to mid 70's in Washington DC. One of our customers was the Rusian Embassy. They had a car that needed a Master Cylinder, WHeel cylinders and Brakes pads and SHoes. They had enough money to either get the Mastercylinder and Brake pads and SHoes or get the wheel cylinders and Pads and Shoes but not all of it! They could not go over the Budget or they would be sent home or worse! So they decided to get the wheel Cylinders (They were leaking) and the Brake Shoes (Ruined ny the Brake Fluid, Turn the Disc and replace the pad. We did the work and coming down the ramp the Pedal went to the floor and they got the car stopped in the street with the E-Brake. They had to park the car until the next month when they would have a new Budget and then buy the Mastercylinder! They had to wait for a little over 2 weeks.
You are in this same situation. but the difference is, You can buy the Muzzy set up and ride your bike until you can afford to buy the Billet Basket. The reason I suggest this first is, the Muzz Man's Clutch is only a few hunderd dollars and it will be kind to your plates while you are waiting. Plus, you will still need to buy a clutch hub Holder (JC WHitney the one that looks like a set of long nose Vice Grips) and get a 1/4 inch diameter punch and round the end to push through the hole in the back of the basket to take the tension off the split gear to remove the Basket to change the Bearing sleeve.
Save up your money and then send in the Old Basket or pay the deposit on the gear and then order the Billet basket! SOmetimes you cannot have everything at Once and just have to wait!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted July 11, 2007 09:49 PM
great story,
i believe that i have found a billet basket for a great price, im worried about blowing up the stocker with the bike extended and running a shinko u soft..... ill try and get the muzzy clutch kit too.....i was hoping to mod stock parts "for now" ( to get more oil flow) and be ok running the plates i have..... i read somewhere about a guy (with a '00 1270 maybe?) that drilled his hub and it worked great that way.......
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted July 12, 2007 05:24 AM
quote:
great story,
i believe that i have found a billet basket for a great price, im worried about blowing up the stocker with the bike extended and running a shinko u soft..... ill try and get the muzzy clutch kit too.....i was hoping to mod stock parts "for now" ( to get more oil flow) and be ok running the plates i have..... i read somewhere about a guy (with a '00 1270 maybe?) that drilled his hub and it worked great that way.......
Remember, no matter drilled or not drilled, Large or small holes, if there is no oil supply then there will be no Oiling of the Clutch!
YOU MUST either MOD the Sleeve under the Clutch Hub or some other kind of Mod to get Oil Flow!
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted July 12, 2007 06:20 AM
quote:
..... i read somewhere about a guy (with a '00 1270 maybe?) that drilled his hub and it worked great that way.......
That would be me....
If you have a (properly) drilled hub, all you need to do is cross drill the "pusher" .040 just behind the needle bearing flat and just in front of the pusher stop.
Since the pusher is hollow, you will get a metered, dual spray of oil inside the hub.
____________
You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted July 12, 2007 06:22 AM
quote:
YOU MUST either MOD the Sleeve under the Clutch Hub or some other kind of Mod to get Oil Flow!
Here's the info again.....
If you have a (properly) drilled hub, all you need to do is cross drill the "pusher" .040 just behind the needle bearing flat and just in front of the pusher stop.
Since the pusher is hollow, you will get a metered, dual spray of oil inside the hub.
Simple and more effective than Muzzy's.
____________
You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted July 12, 2007 10:04 AM
We also ground a 1/4" Flat on the side of the pusher to allow more Oil out! Easier than drilling the harden steel of the pusher
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted July 12, 2007 06:36 PM
ok guys, since i have nothing to compare to, im thinking my hub is a muzzy as it has holes. i put some pics up in my broken clutch parts thread for you to inspect
thx!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted July 12, 2007 07:17 PM
Look at the "clutch problem" thread. The photos clearly show the radial holes in the hub to oil the plates and the changes to the bearing sleeve to provide more oil to the inner hub area.
The Muzzy kit is still a deal price wise. It's done right and it works perfectly.
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thekaz
Needs a job
spell chequer is bustimicated
Posts: 2909
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posted July 12, 2007 09:19 PM
quote:
Look at the "clutch problem" thread. The photos clearly show the radial holes in the hub to oil the plates and the changes to the bearing sleeve to provide more oil to the inner hub area.
The Muzzy kit is still a deal price wise. It's done right and it works perfectly.
Got a link ??
I did a search but I am kinda sober right now 
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KZScott
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posted July 13, 2007 02:22 AM
 Edited By: KZScott on 13 Jul 2007 03:37
its my other thread in this section
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=1&TID=32723&set_time=
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted July 13, 2007 05:00 AM
quote:
We also ground a 1/4" Flat on the side of the pusher to allow more Oil out! Easier than drilling the harden steel of the pusher
This mod only allows oil to flow in while the clutch is dis-engauged momentarily. So it is not as effective. Even the Muzzy's do not run as wet as they could.
____________
You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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VincentHill
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posted July 13, 2007 08:30 AM
Edited By: VincentHill on 13 Jul 2007 09:31
quote:
quote:
We also ground a 1/4" Flat on the side of the pusher to allow more Oil out! Easier than drilling the harden steel of the pusher
This mod only allows oil to flow in while the clutch is dis-engauged momentarily. So it is not as effective. Even the Muzzy's do not run as wet as they could.
You need to bevel the edge also. There is a problem with "Over" Oiling the clutch also! I have see where the entire assembly was filled with Oil slowing the Bike down. So you can get too much of a good thing! Also remember that no matter how this is done, the oil only goes through the plates when dissengaged!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted July 13, 2007 08:38 AM
"the oil only goes through the plates when dissengaged!..."
what about the spaces between the indiv pads on the fibers?? won't let the oil out to the basket??
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VincentHill
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posted July 13, 2007 02:31 PM
quote:
"the oil only goes through the plates when dissengaged!..."
what about the spaces between the indiv pads on the fibers?? won't let the oil out to the basket??
Correctumundo! Correction. More Oil goes through the plates when Dissengaged!
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted July 13, 2007 04:12 PM
Hey Guys, I was talking about the "Flat Spot" on the pusher mod. Oil will only flow into the inside of the hub during the momentary clutch dis-engaugement, which is not much due to the stop.
The cross drill mod gives a metered spray without over oiling.
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted July 14, 2007 12:36 AM
psycho
why wouldn't oil flow around where the puller shaft seats in the trans input shaft, whether its being disengaged or not??? It is not a very tight fit. hmmmm...
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psycho1122
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posted July 15, 2007 08:48 AM
Pressure plate holds pusher "stop" up against input shaft.
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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VincentHill
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posted July 15, 2007 12:41 PM
quote:
Pressure plate holds pusher "stop" up against input shaft.
Which is why you have to Bevel the edge where the Flat spot is!
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted July 16, 2007 06:19 AM
Sounds solid!
Grind the crap out of your pusher. Does this method allow you to meter the amount of oil getting into your hub?!?
____________
You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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