Grunter
Parking Attendant
Posts: 29
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posted June 03, 2007 02:20 PM
New owner with stock b1. where to start?
Hi all,
Have had my first ride this weekend on my new bike, to be honest im a bit disappointed, felt a bit flat compared to my old zzr11!
The guy i bought it off said its been standing since last august, and there seems to be a drain on the battery, the tyres were distorted so have put bridgestone 014's with the 190 rear as it seems to be the most recommended for handling. will be doing the oil and filter before taking it out again,
Am thinking of ordering a full akrapovic evo system with the removable baffle type can along with the power commander, They couldnt tell me in the shop what the difference is between the pcIIIusb and the R version other than the price.. is it worth the extra..I will be trying for as much power as i can without internal modification...Yet! so is it best to get the R version now so its ready for future?
I think im going to have to change the clutch too, it makes a noise when slipping to pull away in first!
Is it worth upgrading the whole unit while im at it or just use the bike for awhile to ensure the bike is worth spending the money on?
I think it has had a respray,, the tail has smaller zx-12r stickers rather than the Ninja sticker, or were there some models done this way?
Be Glad of any advice..
  
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted June 03, 2007 07:56 PM
Disappointed? That may partly be due to the B models heavier flywheel. From a standstill they "feel" sluggish but in reality it isn't that much of a difference once you were underway? Did you shift at 12k indicated for a few gears....? The 12 gets faster and faster in 3rd, 4th, etc. 1st and 2nd, while wild, don't have the ram air HP produced that early.
PC3 USB is more modern (USB vs serial), you can adjust the map in 250 rpm increments instead of 500, has more devices you can hook up to it (like a dynojet quickshifter) whereas the PC3R is a little more older, connects with serial, 500 RPM increments but it does have the ability to adjust timing, pretty important, especially when tuning with nitrous but also tuning in general. A PC3 USB would require you to purchase an ignition module, another couple hundred dollars to adjust timing. I have a pc3r but hooking up a quickshifter would be nice.
If your clutch is out and you plan on drag racing or are really hard on your bike it may be a good idea to upgrade the clutch completely now while you're at it.
I believe all zx12's have the word "ninja" on the tail section, not zx12. I have seen all years but have not seen all 12s so don't hold me to that.
Good luck!
A.
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Grunter
Parking Attendant
Posts: 29
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posted June 04, 2007 02:51 PM
Thanks shiphteey
No i didnt get chance to open her up all the way, i only rode to the shop for tyres and back and didnt want to give it too much with fresh rubber on, it just didnt feel like it wanted to get a move on even if i had asked it to!
I got chance to take off some plastic to see whats underneath today, when i started her earlier and give it a few blips i noticed blue smoke, not what i wanted to see..had a look in airbox and she has been drawing oil through the breather, she was pretty dirty in there, the filters were stock items and were dry as a bone and very dusty! the plugs are probably pretty caked up too.. will have a look at them tomorrow.
Seems the BMC filters are the ones to have, but when I was looking to order there are race versions, whats the difference? is it just a durability of the filter issue? is there any real performance difference?
will be ordering the Akro & pc usb end of this week..give me something to do next weekend! lol
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aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted June 04, 2007 06:12 PM
With it sitting that long,you may want to consider having the injectors cleaned or at the very least run some injector cleaner.
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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madmike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted June 05, 2007 05:22 AM
got to agree with AA, run some GOOD gas and injector cleaner through there... then put in new plugs for sure!
take it out for a spin then and see how she feels,
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200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted June 05, 2007 05:39 AM
Most go for BMC race, flows a little more than street.
A.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted June 05, 2007 07:18 AM
I would highly recommend a throttle body sinc since the bike has been sitting.. change the oil and spark plugs.. then pipe (akra) and bmc race filter you should be good...
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted June 05, 2007 11:31 AM
Usually the Oil in the airbox is from people overfilling the engine oil and it getting pumped up there. For some reason you did not post the mileage on the bike and where you live. also dirty Air Filters will slow you down
In this order I would change gasoline in the tank! Then the Engine Oil and it takes just a hair over 3 quarts with oil filter. Get the BMC Air FIlters.
Once this is done then Look at "ALL" of the exhaust systems and consider how you ride and your pocket book. If accel at lower RPMS is Important then 4-2-1 Ip peak power and top speed then look at a 4-1 or a 4-2-1 with short "2" Sections. Ti is special but it has "Special" Problems also. Get a Stainless system with either a ti or CF Muffler. Also look at the noise levels because some piple are a LOT Louder than others
Welcone to this board where the conversation can be very technical compared to some other boards 
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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Grunter
Parking Attendant
Posts: 29
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posted June 05, 2007 02:27 PM
Hi Vince,
thats given me more to think about, am waiting on a price all in for the bmc race filters, full akro Evolution system with removable baffle type can for mot time, PCIIIusb, ignition module, plugs, filters , general service and a throttle body sync,
was thinking that would sort it but i think the evo system is full Ti, what problems are there with the Ti systems?
Bike has 17000 miles on her, I am based in Wales Uk.. so one thing i wont have to worry about is altitude! .. mostly ride quite hard so not worried too much about low down accel
Do you think i should go for a different system but stick with the can? it would free up some cash for other stuff should the gains be unworthy of the extra 300 pound price tag!
I ran my zzr 11 with a micron race system and a CF race can and it was acceptable enough that without stickers it passed 3 Mot's at 2 different places and i had never been pulled on it so in all honesty i would probably just leave a removable baffle can in its baffle out set up so maybe better just to get a race can? is there much of a difference in the two cans for power output, i should imagine the race can would be the one to get for maximum power..
Thanks for all the advice so far guys,, im not getting much info from the folks behind the counters who when asked a question just get their glossy catalogue out and read to you exactly the same thing you read before going to the shop!!
In a world of "Bolt On's" I find Technical most refreshing!! always ready to learn something new!
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted June 05, 2007 03:28 PM
You can't ride this bike like your ZZR. Power is strong from 9k-redline on a piped/pc3 bike. It does not have the wide powerband you are used to, and it is geared much taller. Put a 17T sprocket (ZZR) on the front, and twist it...it will make your ZZR seem like a dog.
Just my .02....
Shane
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aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted June 05, 2007 04:53 PM
If you are in the UK,is the bike hp restricted?If so,investing in a used stateside ecu might have a nice effect.
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted June 05, 2007 06:36 PM
all bikes 01 to 05 are restricted.. actually the 12r was still for sale in Europe last year..
if its an 02 or 03 buy a bonneville box from Muzzy
04 to 05 nikko g pack
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aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted June 06, 2007 07:45 AM
Supra,you are talking about speed restricted.I was under the impression that some European models were hp restricted.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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SpikeZX12R
Parking Attendant
Posts: 27
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posted June 06, 2007 08:34 AM
If it is a european import then they tend to have a BHP limiter to 100BHP i think.
But Im guessing its a genuine UK model and just needs cleaning out.
Where I live in Guernsey the bike or the car very rarly sees the red line or very high revs very often and so carbons up till I take it away for a good blast down the motorway.
Could be that the guy that had it before you just never opend the throttle and so could just be bunged up.
They are quite highly geared too so mabey thats the difference to your old bike too which might just make you think its flat.
Just my 2 penneth worth.
Spike
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted June 06, 2007 09:07 AM
Yes the French model is heavily restricted..
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Grunter
Parking Attendant
Posts: 29
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posted June 06, 2007 09:36 AM
Have just dropped the bike off at a local shop for mot and oil, filter & plug change with an intake clean And will give it a good go before proceeding any further,
Bike is not restricted on hp just top speed at the moment.
Decided to support my local shop rather than go for the glossy mail order giant route but they are having problems getting suppliers for Akra systems, seems the big mail order groups have made some sort of exclusive deal in the uk! Same goes for the BMC filters.. They are having to source new suppliers as most say they are no longer available in the uk, but im sure i found a set of the race versions online for £68 but i didnt save the link and cant find it again...so if anyone knows of a UK supplier let me know!!
Also does the ignition module connect direct to the PC or do you need the hub?
Cheers again guys,
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oof440
Expert Class
Posts: 137
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posted June 10, 2007 05:54 PM
You can run 1 accesory off of the power commander port but if you want to run say, the ignition module and the quickshifter you'll have to buy the hub.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted June 11, 2007 05:37 AM
Grunter, I don't know for a fact that your UK ZX-12 is HP restricted but I do know the UK ECUs have different part numbers than any of the North American ECUs
Something is different. Maybe YOURS is faster 
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted June 11, 2007 07:04 AM
Hey Grunter what is your ECU part number.. Is it between 21175-1088 to 21175-1090?
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Grunter
Parking Attendant
Posts: 29
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posted June 13, 2007 09:44 AM
Not sure what the ecu part number is, can it be read without digging to much or do i need to get the ecu out from wherever it is hidden?
update on bike so far... filters are in shop, Akra race system is being delivered tomorrow, (went for full race can in the end), PC is in tomorrow, Ignition module due on friday, and should all be fitted N' good to go by next week, fitting braided brake lines while im at it.
Managed to get chance for a blast since new tyres and oil change etc... it is much much better...and yes it does seem the sense of urgency isnt there till your up the rpm range, i managed an indicated 170 - 180 ish and realise how much less protection i now have, i need a new helmet i think as now im in a different riding position my current one shakes so much above 140 its hard to see!!
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted June 13, 2007 10:47 AM
ignition should pick up the low end and midrange.. try 2.5 degrees and see how that works..
the stock map is VERY LEAN on the bottom.. richen it up and you should be good..
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5000SE
Parking Attendant
Posts: 5
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posted June 13, 2007 01:12 PM
Grunter,
A friend of mine has a small bike shop in the UK - Sheffield - and there's absolutely no problem sourcing Akropovic systems.
I know the BMC filters aren't easy to get hold of over here, but there's nothing wrong with the K&Ns except for them tending to stick a bit when you pull them out to clean them, and it's not that hard to deal with.
You won't get better than the Akro system, it works a treat. Really gutsy noise without being loud enough to wind up the boys in blue, and the power gains are fantastic. I've spoken with a number of dynos in the UK who see plenty of ZX12s, and they all say the Akro is the daddy for power. It's also beautifully made, and weighs sod all.
I have an early power commander and when I took it in for a full remap, we were able to get all the CO readings across the rev and throttle range well within desired parameters just by adjusting the low, mid and high mixture bands on the PC box itself. The bike runs like a dream, makes 177bhp at the rear wheel (measured on 2 dynos - it only made 164 with the mods before the fuelling was set up), and lifts off the throttle so easily and controllably now with standard gearing that I don't want to gear it down at all. My mods are Akro full evolution, K&Ns, PCII and a couple of degrees ignition advance - though I've backed that off now I'm running the bike on nitrous as well.
As the last poster says, stock fuelling goes very lean midrange. When you fit the Akro it really shows up - the difference after setting up properly is awesome.
Ignition mods only make you a couple of hp. You can physically modify the ignition pickup to gain a couple of degrees, and get 80% of the possible ignition gain. Or, you can spend £200 on getting an extra quarter hp over filing oval the mounting holes for the ignition sensor!!
As for the discussion on restricted power in the UK, the UK spec bikes aren't limited in higher gears, but I think the later models (maybe the later 'A's, certainly the 'B's) were restricted in lower gears - but this can be bypassed. Even standard, your bike should still feel in a different world to a ZZR though - I've had a couple of each (though my 12s have both been A1 models).
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Grunter
Parking Attendant
Posts: 29
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posted June 26, 2007 02:42 PM
Well the bike has gone in to have everything done, should have it back thursday, I did manage to get it to a dyno today to get a start point to gauge the mods by,
Run 1 157.18 hp 72.92f, 29.81 in-Hg, 22% humidity
Run 2 154.85 hp 73.42f, 29.79 in-Hg, 23% humidity
Run 3 153.75 hp 73.90f, 29.79 in-Hg, 23% humidity
as for the restriction, the model I have is a B1H which as far as i can gather from trawling many posts is restricted in first gear between 4000 - 6000 rpm, not sure what it is restricted to though.
I am a bit confused by the air / fuel ratio plot on the printout, will have to scan and post it tomorrow, at 3000rpm run 2 goes off the scale which tops at 18, run 1 next at 16.5 and run 3 at 15.5
The 3 plots all seem to cross 13 at about 6000rpm and from there on the plot nearest to the highlighted 13 line also shows the higher hp plot,
is this because at lower rpm the blower is forcing more air than the bike would get at the expected roadspeed and at higher rpm it is not getting as much air as it is expecting??
As for the BMC race filters here in the UK, the people who used to import them have stopped and have switched to pipercross instead, They have some left but its pot luck as to whats on the shelf and they had no 12 race versions so i have gone with their pipercross ones, I will dyno the bike again as soon as i get chance next week to check on the gains.
Thanks again for all the help Guys..
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rgeorge
Expert Class
Posts: 220
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posted June 26, 2007 06:46 PM
I suspect that exhaust reversion was giving a false lean AFR reading at low engine speeds.
How far into the pipe did the exhaust sniffer go?
If the blower fan in front of the bike blew hard enough to make a difference (which I doubt), it would be detected by the manifold air pressure sensor and compensated for by the ecu.
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Grunter
Parking Attendant
Posts: 29
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posted June 27, 2007 08:17 AM
this is the run from yesterday, im sure it makes sense to someone!!
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