shane661
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posted April 19, 2007 05:42 PM
Checking Clutch Plates
I have a Muzzy clutch setup, which gave me some troubles, soaking in oil. It only had about 500 miles on it, and maybe 15 passes. A few of the steels have hot scorch marks around the outer edges.
It definitely slipped on me hard a few times. I need to count the plates to make sure I was supplied with enough. I also didn't switch to the Muzzy hub that came with the kit.
So, do you think that not using their hub/spacer caused the slippage? And how can I check the plates to see if they are ok to re-use? Thanks!
  
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CrotchRocket
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Bracket Racing with Betsy
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posted April 19, 2007 06:21 PM
Go back to the origional set up!!!...Your clutch is slipping because the stack height is shorter now!!!
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shane661
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posted April 19, 2007 06:29 PM
 Edited By: shane661 on 19 Apr 2007 19:44
I have oem height (vesrah) now. I suspected the Muzzy stack height was a problem...can you confirm this??
I replaced the Muzzy setup after 500 miles and 15 passes last year....but I just smoked an oem-type setup. I was thinking of trying the Muzzy again...
Maybe I shouldn't?
What is the setup that works at the track, for you?
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entropy
Moderator
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posted April 19, 2007 11:22 PM
the Muzzy clutch pak has a bit shorter overall stack height but it doesn't slip because of it. Both the Muzzy and the OEM clutch paks work great at the track.
The steels are fine when they get some blue on them unless they are warped.
The fibers should measure .129-.130 when new and when they get to .126-.127" i junk them.
What springs are you using?? Where is the clutch slipping?? outa the hole, or at the big end??
I assume you have about 1/8" free play in the clutch cable???
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shane661
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posted April 20, 2007 02:57 AM
The steels were scorched on the outer edges...like "hot spots". When I would grab 2nd gear at the track, sometimes the clutch would hook for a second, and spin to redline. Or, I could run it 20 times on the street, banging gears at redline...and one out of 20 it would slip. One day I was riding the bike real easy, shifted at 7k, and it spun to redline when engaged the clutch!
The odd thing about the steels is the scorched hot spots around the edges....not the even heating that I have seen with all my other clutches.
So, the slippage was random....and even with the clutch not hot at the time.
Do you have to use the Muzzy hub and spacer in order for their stack to work? I was using their springs at the time.
Yes, I had proper free play at the lever.
I swapped it for a stock type Vesrah 6 months ago, with no problems. But now that I am ready to put in another clutch, I am trying to figure out why the Muzzy was a problem for me.
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entropy
Moderator
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posted April 20, 2007 05:56 AM
i think you have an issue which is not the plates.
Are the splines on the hub nice & smooth?? The steels could be hanging up???? Or perhaps the clutch basket is hanging up the fibers???
I for sure wouldn't replace the clutch plates unless the steels are blue-black/warped and the fibers are too thin.
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shiphteey
Needs a job
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posted April 20, 2007 06:08 AM
+1.
Shane, we ran on a poorly prepped track so even I spun my supercorsa!
Not only that but you're on an ancient Dunlop 208!
You are more than welcome to borrow my rear wheel with supercorsa mounted on it and PIN IT on the streets. You won't get the tire slip thats causing you to believe its clutch slip.
For argument's sake, lets say your clutch is slipping.....how the hell are you gonna know when you run a dunlop 208 in conditions that make it more slippery than street?
A.
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shane661
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posted April 20, 2007 10:19 AM
Edited By: shane661 on 20 Apr 2007 11:20
Listen guys...you are not quite hearing me.
6 months ago I put in a Muzzy setup. Within 3 weeks it was slipping under load, randomly. I pulled it out and put in a Vesrah, and I have had no problems since.
I would like to install a new clutch soon, since I have enough runs on the current one, and I want it to be strong for both Maxton, and MIR.
I never did figure out what made that Muzzy setup slip. It is still soaking in oil.
So, my questions are:
1) What would make a clutch slip randomly, like the Muzzy setup did?
2) Is there something different about the spacing of the Muzzy hub & sleeve, as compared to the stock setup?
3) The random scorch marks around the edge of the steels was odd. I wonder what would cause that?
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
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posted April 20, 2007 11:36 AM
The Muzzy clutch kit has a different stack height than stock. The purpose of the mods to the hub is to bring oil to the clutch from the inside out so you don't burn it up. (The stock hub runs too dry.) The hub, washer, springs and steels are all different. Of course, since the Muzzy hub is a miodified stock hub it will work with a stock clutch pak and springs (but not as well) and the Muzzy clutch pak will work with a stock hub (but it will burn up). I think you have mixed and matched the wrong steels, OR you have indexed the top friction into the short slots. I would recommend that you install the Muzzy clutch kit (including all the Muzzy supplied friction and steels) EXACTLY like the instructions tell you. There are THOUSANDS of Muzzy ZX-12 clutch kits in use and, if they are properly installed, they virtually eliminate clutch problems on an early 12. Ask some of the "old hands" (entropy, mad mike) on the dragbike zone.
Doug
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VincentHill
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posted April 20, 2007 12:25 PM
Shane, If we were friends right now, I would give you a Drilled Hub and Center Bearing. SInce we are not, you need to get these parts in a complete package from the Muzz man. The Price is cheaper than you would di it your self if you could do it yourself (Diamond Drill Bit and a Lot of Hole drilling and making notches inside the Hub to channel the Oil!)
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shane661
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posted April 20, 2007 01:31 PM
I already have a new Muzzy hub and center bearing. I was just trying to determine if that was the cause of the issues I had with the initial install.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted April 20, 2007 03:43 PM
Shane,
Doug raised an interesting point.
Would you still be running an OEM basket???
I haven't used one or even known anyone who used one on the track since early Y2001. It never occurred to me that you might be running one.
If you are still running the OEM basket and you have the top fiber in the wrong slot you sure will have slipping probs with very little fiber wear.
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shane661
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posted April 20, 2007 03:50 PM
I still have an oem basket...but I am uncertain of what you mean by "wrong slot". I followed the instructions. Could you elaborate? (I have an '02, btw....stock basket, and inner hub)
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
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posted April 20, 2007 06:39 PM
The Muzzy instructions? Or the OE instructions? I believe the Muzzy instructions have you aligning all the frictions in the same slots, not off-setting the outermost, narrow, fiber plate (which is replaced by a full width plate in the Muzzy setup.
Why not stop trying to figure it out. If you have a COMPLETE Muzzy setup, just install it and go ride.
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g_right
Novice Class
Posts: 84
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posted April 21, 2007 10:51 AM
dougmeyer...about how many back to back runs can you make without hurting the clutches? I was told three and then let them cool off...
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shane661
Needs a life
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posted April 21, 2007 11:12 AM
Edited By: shane661 on 21 Apr 2007 12:12
I followed the Muzzy instructions. They left out the part about doing away with the small flat spring and fiber that is in the middle of the B model clutch. I had to call them about that. Otherwise, everything was smooth on the install. I will install the complete setup, and give it another try.
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dougmeyer
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moderated
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posted April 21, 2007 12:27 PM
Just curious, what was the date on theinstructions? It should be in small numbers on the bottom of the page.
g- It depends on how much and how good of a slipper you are. You CAN ruin a set in three passes. Somebody really good like Rickey can make 'em last a long time. But, so many people were not able to go rounds, the Muzzy kit became almost mandatory.
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drryanscarsella
Expert Class
Posts: 113
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posted April 23, 2007 05:45 AM
Damn I just read the post. I thought vince and Shane were friends, I am lost about all this stuff. I have been thinking of upgrading to the Muzzy clutch on my 2005 model. I hope to not have these same problems hes experiencing. Good luck shane Hope to see you in May at Maxton. You too Vince, Cant we all just get along!
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shane661
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posted April 23, 2007 05:48 AM
Vincent and I are square now.
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VincentHill
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posted April 23, 2007 07:12 AM
quote:
Vincent and I are square now.
True that!! Shane stepped on my Corn on my Babby Toe! OUCH!
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g_right
Novice Class
Posts: 84
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posted April 24, 2007 04:14 PM
Thanks doug... I guess I need to get some more time on the CLUTCH HAND and keep my eye on the fast guys CLUTCH HAND...
Vincent, give me your shoe size and I will give you a pair of STEEL TOES boots for that corn...and they will be only the best....Government issue...LOL
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