shane661
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posted February 25, 2007 12:43 PM
 Edited By: shane661 on 25 Feb 2007 14:27
The 1340cc Setup?
I have read somewhere about a combination of parts to yield 134?cc on the 12R. This is ideal for the racing classes of 1350cc or less. What is the bore/crank combination that yields this?
As a side note, It's too bad that the 14 is 2cc over that limit. Really a shame.
  
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supra5677
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posted February 25, 2007 02:25 PM
let me check that for you.. its a 85.5 mm bore.. let me see
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supra5677
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posted February 25, 2007 02:28 PM
Bore is 85.5
Stroke is 58.7
so a 2.5mm bore
and a 3.3mm stroke
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shane661
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posted February 25, 2007 02:38 PM
The crank Muzzy offers is a +4.6 (60mm stroke) unit. What are the options using this crank, in order to stay under 1350cc?
Also, if someone could post the equations, I would appreciate it. Then I can figure this stuff on my own. Thanks!
Shane
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gg
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posted February 25, 2007 03:01 PM
Swft used to have a 1347. 1270 pistons with custom crank...
Don't remember the spec tho...
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted February 25, 2007 06:02 PM
I am sure anyone of the crank weld up people could do one for you. Marine Crankshaft would probably be the most economical and they do a good job. I think probably around 750 for the weld up, micro polish, nitride, and balance.
Some other options maybe a little larger bore and smaller stroke if its going to be an N/A bike.
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supra5677
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posted February 25, 2007 06:59 PM
I have the exact engine displacement calculator let me check for you.
85.5 by 58.7 is 1348 let me check for a 60mm crank..to stay under 1350
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supra5677
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posted February 25, 2007 07:04 PM
1mm over 84mm by 60 is 1330cc..
pistons that are available are 1mm over, 2mm over, 2.5mm over, and muzzy 4mm over ( which is very expensive)
you can come up with any stroke you want, where you are limited is the bore, unless you go to custom sized pistons.. I personally would go with the 4mm bore which is 1317 cc's and keep the stock stroke, extend the rev limiter, and maybe a cam..
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dougmeyer
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posted February 25, 2007 07:47 PM
DId you miss the fact that I have one of these engines for sale? It's in the classifieds 3 pages back.
I used a Muzzys 1270 piston kit (custom domes) and a +3.1 mm crank. The engine I have for sale has a brand new Marine crank. (In the classified, I incorrectly identified the crank as a 3.5 and I have to fix that, but Oliver needs to unlock it for me.
Doug
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Megabyte
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posted February 25, 2007 08:38 PM
Ping SWFT. He had a 1340
quote:
I have read somewhere about a combination of parts to yield 134?cc on the 12R. This is ideal for the racing classes of 1350cc or less. What is the bore/crank combination that yields this?
As a side note, It's too bad that the 14 is 2cc over that limit. Really a shame.
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dougmeyer
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posted February 25, 2007 08:41 PM
Swft's was the same as mine. Muzzys built it.
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted February 26, 2007 05:55 AM
In the long run you probably can not get a cheaper well built engine as the one being sold above. Plus after you get bored running N/A class, I bet that motor could handle a little juice with out as many head gasket isssues!
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dougmeyer
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posted February 26, 2007 10:57 AM
It's a hell of a deal-
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THE ICE MAN
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posted February 28, 2007 07:45 PM
quote:
I have read somewhere about a combination of parts to yield 134?cc on the 12R. This is ideal for the racing classes of 1350cc or less. What is the bore/crank combination that yields this?
Going to try for the 1350 cc record 
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shiphteey
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posted February 28, 2007 10:39 PM
This guy...
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dougmeyer
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posted February 28, 2007 11:44 PM
Here's the head from my engine (which, by the way is for sale....)
Did I mention it's in the classifieds?
Doug
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Seth ZX12r UK
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posted March 01, 2007 07:40 AM
quote:
Here's the head from my engine (which, by the way is for sale....)
Did I mention it's in the classifieds?
Doug
Looks good.
Got any photos of the exhaust ports?
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shane661
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posted March 01, 2007 09:16 AM
quote:
Going to try for the 1350 cc record
I don't want to hurt your feelings and steal all of the records you set on that slug 'Busa of yours....lol
I was just curious what the combination was, since it is not listed on Muzzy's site. While Doug's engine may be a steal, it would still cost me a ton to have somone build it. I'm sure I would have close to $10k, just in the drivetrain, by the time I hit the starter button. For that cost I could have a new 14 or Busa, and have $5k for mods (after selling the 12R). I think it only makes sense for one of your guys who has the skill to assemble it yourself.
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dougmeyer
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posted March 01, 2007 10:16 AM
Seth,
Sure, but they're not really relevent. Gains in the ZX-12 exhaust port are almost not worth touching them.
Shane,
Why would you have someone "build" it? It's all there, all you have to do is put it together. Actually, I'd do that for you for considerably less than a "ton".
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supra5677
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posted March 01, 2007 06:13 PM
what about the gains in the zx12r's exhaust valves?
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Seth ZX12r UK
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posted March 01, 2007 10:43 PM
quote:
Seth,
Sure, but they're not really relevent. Gains in the ZX-12 exhaust port are almost not worth touching them.
I understand only a 6% increase, is about right on the exhaust side?
How do the CFM gains on the inlet porting on that head translate into BHP, percentage wise?
% increase in flow = X BHP
Max gain in BHP with good porting?
Are fitting oversize inlet valves worth the effort ?
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dougmeyer
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posted March 02, 2007 07:02 AM
Good question.
Yes, 6% is just about the best you could see, BUT changes on the exhaust side (assuming it's not a horrible port to start with) don't make as much of a difference as inlet changes. This is because, as I'm sure you realize, the port flow on the exhaust is under pressure and the gases are extremely hot and experinceing a pressure drop across the port anyway.
They are being forced out, whereas, on a N/A engine the pressures of the inlet gas flow is nearly atmospheric.
Without digging up a formula(s), You can pretty much say that the gains are linear and proportional.( More mass air flow (%of increase) permits more fuel (in the ratio of the current A/F ratio) and commensurately more torque. This is why you can make a very predictable statement about Pounds of Boost = X Hp increase on a turbo.
Virtually all testing that I've seen on ZX series KAwasakis has shown that inlet valves are optimized from the factory, and that bigger ones simply are not worth the trouble and may hurt high rpm performance because of the degree to which the valve train parts are matched from a mass standpoint.
Doug
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Seth ZX12r UK
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posted March 02, 2007 07:13 AM
Edited By: Seth ZX12r UK on 2 Mar 2007 07:14
So a 6% increase or x % increase on the inlet side would translate to a 6% or x % increase proportionally to the % increase in the flow into the cylinder?
ie. a 10% increase in flow through the inlet would correllate as a 10%, of say 176rwhp, which would be a 17.6 bhp increase?
Is volume more important than the velocity of the incoming mixture, or is it a balance of the two?
Thnx Doug.
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dougmeyer
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posted March 02, 2007 08:37 AM
Your term, "Volume" i.e., the AMOUNT of air, is the product of a mass unit of air ( pound) times the velocity (feet per minute), init?
You can't have a "flow" without movement, right? It's not a balance, it's a combination.
The mass is limited by the port area and the speed is limited by the speed of sound (about 1100 feet per second). Up to those limits, the more CFM the better.
The proportionate power increase is only possible of course, if you provide the CORRECT increase in fuel flow.
You reading all this, Supra? 
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Seth ZX12r UK
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posted March 02, 2007 10:01 AM
quote:
Your term, "Volume" i.e., the AMOUNT of air, is the product of a mass unit of air ( pound) times the velocity (feet per minute), init?
You can't have a "flow" without movement, right? It's not a balance, it's a combination.
The mass is limited by the port area and the speed is limited by the speed of sound (about 1100 feet per second). Up to those limits, the more CFM the better.
The proportionate power increase is only possible of course, if you provide the CORRECT increase in fuel flow.
You reading all this, Supra?
Doug
bad choice of words, on my part there..innit You been watching eastenders?
As a layman, I think I have the jist of it.
You got 220cfm yes? what does a standard head flow?
Thanks
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