supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted February 24, 2007 07:20 PM
Horsepower Discrepancy to Doug Meyer
To Doug Meyer:
I went on nighrider bike tech and found a horsepower calculator. By putting in vehicle weight with rider, e.t. and mph it can give you a pretty good calculation of your rwhp for that particualar quarter mile run..
Using Rickey Gadsons numbers for November of 1999, ZX12r Pre production
Vehicle Weight with rider estimated 707 pounds
9.52 @ 146.97 mph equals 175.16 horsepower
His production run in 2000
Vehicle weight with rider estimated 707 pounds
9.89 @ 142 equals 157.99 horsepower
this is a 17 horsepower discrepancy from pre production to production runs. Same rider, same lowered set up everything else stock. As you said you worked on the bike when he ran his still record 9.52.. You also said that (if I remember correctly) that the production bikes were in some ways superior to the pre production ones.. I don't see how this could be true. Did you ever check the ECU' numbers on both bikes, also did you cross check and measure the cams? Please clarify.. because a 17 horsepower discrepancy has to be explained in a logical way..
thanks,
supra
   
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Outsiderzx12r
Zone Head
Street Racer
Posts: 841
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posted February 24, 2007 08:59 PM
Good question, don't know if we'll ever know the answer though.
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted February 24, 2007 10:01 PM
That's just telling you how much HP is needed to go that fast in the 1/4 mile...
The discrepancy could have been due to a different track, hot and humid weather, or perfect conditions in cold weather, or a perfect pass compared to a bogged run from letting the clutch out too fast.....Could have been alot of factors here!!!
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted February 24, 2007 11:45 PM
let's shake the crystal ball and look back in time to try and guess the combined weights of a rider and a bike and the times  .... That's actually only a 9% margin of error.... more than acceptable for a totally hypothetical made up scenario and question...
unless of course you were there personally and weighed the rider and bike both times...
BTW... racers arent robots.. they dont run the same times all the time... any way you slice it, a 9.52 and a 9.89 are better than anything I could hope to pull out of my ass.
Hey... I saw Ghost Rider tonight. Anyone else see it?
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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H2 to ZX12
Needs a job
two stroke power
Posts: 3674
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posted February 25, 2007 05:09 AM
quote:
That's just telling you how much HP is needed to go that fast in the 1/4 mile...
The discrepancy could have been due to a different track, hot and humid weather, or perfect conditions in cold weather, or a perfect pass compared to a bogged run from letting the clutch out too fast.....Could have been alot of factors here!!!
doh!
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aughtsix
Expert Class
Posts: 277
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posted February 25, 2007 10:32 AM
I think the 'EXS' -vs- '300V' controversy was more promising...
It must be the snow.
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted February 25, 2007 12:59 PM
 Edited By: shane661 on 25 Feb 2007 13:01
quote:
Hey... I saw Ghost Rider tonight. Anyone else see it?
Yeah, I just saw it today. Not as bad as the reviewers say! I enjoyed it for what it was....
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted February 25, 2007 07:13 PM
I have all the zx12 articles from the reprint service... Reports show that Gadson's shifts were flawless.. I'm gonna wait for Doug M. to chime in..
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted February 25, 2007 07:15 PM
By the way my scenrios arn't made up.. They are actual quarter mile ET's and MPH performed by Rickey Gadson.
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted February 25, 2007 07:24 PM
OK. What's your point?
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Outsiderzx12r
Zone Head
Street Racer
Posts: 841
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posted February 25, 2007 08:20 PM
quote:
OK. What's your point?
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted February 25, 2007 10:38 PM
quote:
quote:
OK. What's your point?
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted February 26, 2007 07:35 AM
I am asking you to explain the quarter mile time discrepancy. This discrepancy is what ruined the zx12r's marketing campaign..
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted February 26, 2007 08:22 AM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 26 Feb 2007 08:22
Actually what ruined the marketing was the eurocrats and the talk at the time of banning the bike from being sold in some euro markets because of one particular comercial on TV.
That caused a big stir and kawi pulled all its planned advertizing and propaganda and replaced it all with a subdued stratigy. Later the 4 jap mfg's agreed to a 185 mph top speed limit to satisfy the eurocrats. So far its worked. Top speeds arnt used as a marketing tool anymore.
I really dont think anyone payed any attention to what RG got in the 1/4 mile with the bike. In reality what counted is what everyone got with thier bikes in the 1/4 mile. And it was soon learned that the stock clutch sucked and the shorter wheel base made the bike less than desireable in stock form to dragrace.
Thats what hurt sales and the early reputation of the zx12r.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted February 26, 2007 08:33 AM
Who care's its freaking old news 7 years old news... Nothing can ever be done to change, so why bother..
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted February 26, 2007 08:55 AM
quote:
... In reality what counted is what everyone got with thier bikes in the 1/4 mile. And it was soon learned that the stock clutch sucked and the shorter wheel base made the bike less than desireable in stock form to dragrace.
Thats what hurt sales and the early reputation of the zx12r.
yep, i 110% agree w/Y2K.
I love my 12, but...
Face it guys, the reason the Busa outsold the 12 is (IMO) in large part to do with the fact that the Busa is simply a better platform for drag racing and LSR. I don't believe any of RG's results hurt sales.
12 is MUCH prettier and actually is a bit faster in the 1/4 when the right person is rding it.
But for most folks:
the busa is longer, lower, torquier and easier to get down the 1/4 mile for the average guy.
For the "out there" motor builders/racers:
the Busa has WAY more potential in terms of cc, and like it or not, the aeros are a titsch better.
Add the 12's made in hell monocoque frame to the mix...
Still, I am building my 1427 again, and have no plans to buy the current Busa. 
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This moderator uses moderation in moderation
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted February 26, 2007 10:56 AM
Karl's got it perfectly right "with the right person riding it".
The difference isn't in the bike- it "in" Rickey's left hand. You think RG isn't worth a tenth or two? Put him on YOUR bike and see how lame you feel after he does thing you thought impossible.
What are you actually trying to determine here? The bike's are ALL THE EFFING SAME!
Don't you think if Muzzys had some way to take credit for fielding a faster ZX-12 (other than the obvious-clutch, pipe, etc) they would have done so, and taken credit for it?
What amazes me is that, not only was the bike not apart or different, we didn't even have time to test it. The clutch fix wasn't thought of yet. In fact THAT"S HOW WE FOUND OUT THAT THE BIKE NEEDED A CLUTCH FIX because RG was smoking the clutch in three passes making those runs.
What discrepancy? RG's runs were what they were. Everybody else's were what they were.
The is bike is what it is. There's nothing to explain.
I still don't get what you are trying to prove.
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted February 26, 2007 02:19 PM
Edited By: worm~hole on 26 Feb 2007 14:22
quote:
Who care's its freaking old news 7 years old news... Nothing can ever be done to change, so why bother..
....no shit!....I remember when the '55 chevy 210 w/that 283 small-block was one of the fastest things out there, but what was that....52 freakin' years ago??????...now we have 2-door turbo four-bangers that'll put it to shame on a moonshine road as well as the 1/4 mile...so what's the point?  ....onward and forward!
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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