Megabyte
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posted December 13, 2006 09:47 PM
Which makes the most HP
Anybody know which Akro makes the most HP
1) Stainless Akro 4 into 1
2) Ti Akro 4 into 2 into 1
3) Stainless Akro 4 into 2 into 1
4) ?
Thanks,
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We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
  
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Y2KZX12R
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posted December 14, 2006 02:51 AM
 Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 14 Dec 2006 02:52
Peak HP a 4-1 will almost always make the most if its designed right.
For midrange and street driveability a 4-2-1 is a much torqueier smoother pipe.
But your only talking about a few hp anyway.
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Y2KZX12R
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VincentHill
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posted December 14, 2006 03:33 AM
the 4-1 for Peak and there is a difference between a "Steel" and Stainless Steel Power output specially after a few runs with Stainless better but I do not know is there is a difference between Ti and Stainless.
Also the shorter the "2" Section the more the peak Power which is the reason the Divider Plate is in the Brock 4-2-1 and are out on the Hindle 4-2-1 which look the same from the outside but perform differently in a drag race and Peak power
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Megabyte
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posted December 14, 2006 08:40 AM
Edited By: Megabyte on 14 Dec 2006 08:42
quote:
Also the shorter the "2" Section the more the peak Power which is the reason the Divider Plate is in the Brock 4-2-1 and are out on the Hindle 4-2-1 which look the same from the outside but perform differently in a drag race and Peak power
Thanks for your reply!
I'd love to see what my bike would do w/a Brock pipe.... Then we'd all know 
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We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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Megabyte
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posted December 14, 2006 08:41 AM
quote:
Peak HP a 4-1 will almost always make the most if its designed right.
For midrange and street driveability a 4-2-1 is a much torqueier smoother pipe.
But your only talking about a few hp anyway.
Thanks for the info.
The newer Akros are 4-2-1. Do they still make a 4 into 1?
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We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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VincentHill
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posted December 14, 2006 10:10 AM
I had an earlier pipe when that was all they made 4-1 but you would have to go back to 2002 to get one
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Megabyte
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posted December 14, 2006 11:58 AM
quote:
I had an earlier pipe when that was all they made 4-1 but you would have to go back to 2002 to get one
Hi Vincent,
Do I remember correctly, that your bike made more HP w/the Brock?
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We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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VincentHill
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posted December 14, 2006 02:13 PM
Edited By: VincentHill on 14 Dec 2006 14:20
Never had a "Brock" But I did have one of the first Hindle Step tubes (All 1 piece welded assembly where they later used springs at the Collector) I made 166 Max HP with the 4-1 Akrapovich SAE Same Map and same Dyno I made 168 HP with the Step tube Hindle and later when it was mapped it made between 174 & 176. Then with the Vacuum Mod, BMC Race and Short Bear stacks it made 183.1SAE HP
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Megabyte
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posted December 14, 2006 03:37 PM
quote:
Never had a "Brock" But I did have one of the first Hindle Step tubes (All 1 piece welded assembly where they later used springs at the Collector) I made 166 Max HP with the 4-1 Akrapovich SAE Same Map and same Dyno I made 168 HP with the Step tube Hindle and later when it was mapped it made between 174 & 176. Then with the Vacuum Mod, BMC Race and Short Bear stacks it made 183.1SAE HP
You guys are just adding fuel to the fire. A Brock's Street Megaphone may be in my future, then we'll all know, damn....
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We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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VincentHill
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posted December 14, 2006 07:13 PM
The "Street" Megaphone is not "Quiet" even with the Baffle in. If you are going to ride on the "Street" You may want to consider getting the same system but with their Muffler. The 2 or 3 more HP may not be worth the ticket
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Big CC Racing
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posted December 16, 2006 08:39 AM
The Akro is far from the best choice for a ZX12R.
I would choose a Titanium Force system, they always dyno over 180bhp (din) while the Akro is normally only mid 170's. Even a Hindle makes beter beans than the Akro.
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Megabyte
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posted December 16, 2006 10:22 AM
quote:
The Akro is far from the best choice for a ZX12R.
I would choose a Titanium Force system, they always dyno over 180bhp (din) while the Akro is normally only mid 170's. Even a Hindle makes beter beans than the Akro.
Yes the Ti-force makes good power. That is what Zhooligan had on his 1361. After the same mechanic built my 1361 as ZH's, the concensus was that my AKRO atleast held its own with the Ti-Force making 212 rwhp. I've competed against hindles in dyno shootouts for years and always ran 4-5 hp more. My dyno guy who tunes engines from literally 100's of miles around, says nothing makes more power than an AKRO, and has the documented runs to support his claim. So, who do you believe. It looks like it's going to cost me a grand to find out
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We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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shane661
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posted December 16, 2006 10:25 AM
I think a very important aspect to consider is HOW the pipe makes power. Peak numbers don't tell the whole story, that's for sure....
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Big CC Racing
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posted December 16, 2006 01:28 PM
quote:
quote:
The Akro is far from the best choice for a ZX12R.
I would choose a Titanium Force system, they always dyno over 180bhp (din) while the Akro is normally only mid 170's. Even a Hindle makes beter beans than the Akro.
Yes the Ti-force makes good power. That is what Zhooligan had on his 1361. After the same mechanic built my 1361 as ZH's, the concensus was that my AKRO atleast held its own with the Ti-Force making 212 rwhp. I've competed against hindles in dyno shootouts for years and always ran 4-5 hp more. My dyno guy who tunes engines from literally 100's of miles around, says nothing makes more power than an AKRO, and has the documented runs to support his claim. So, who do you believe. It looks like it's going to cost me a grand to find out
I lost count of the 12R's I have dynod & no Akro made overly good results. The pipe configuration of the 12 lends itself to the Ti Force with long 4 to 2 to 1 for good midrange, Muzzy do a similar design in its pipework.
Of course dong back to back comparisons exhaust wise on the same bike in the same conditions is rare but I have seen enough to give an overall view.
Arrows also work well.
I think another important factor is quality & price & while Akro is average quality its price is far from.
Too many people get sold on a name.
BTW though i have done no stroker 12R motors I have probably built a good couple of dozen 1287cc motors averaging 200 to 205 depending on which exhaust etc is used.
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Phantom Menace
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posted December 16, 2006 02:09 PM
Edited By: Phantom Menace on 16 Dec 2006 14:10
What does Kawasaki use in AMA superbike and even in MotoGP? Akrapovic....
Look at the pipes on the ACE PERFORMANCE bikes at Maxton that set 8 new records, beating the previous records by an average of 2-5mph...
Akrapovic.....
Oh, and about peak horsepower.... that's cool if you're looking for a pretty number, but what's most important is..
1. The power curve leading up to peak power
2. How long it holds peak power
Most importantly..
3. How it runs in the REAL WORLD, not the dyno room.
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VincentHill
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posted December 16, 2006 05:58 PM
Look at Jim Owen who hasd the Top SPeed Record at Maxton and Bonneville on the ZX12R and he set one with the Hindle and the other with a Brock by Hindle SIdewinder. SO if we are talking ZX12R the Akra does not do it for the 12
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Megabyte
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posted December 16, 2006 06:31 PM
quote:
Look at Jim Owen who hasd the Top SPeed Record at Maxton and Bonneville on the ZX12R and he set one with the Hindle and the other with a Brock by Hindle SIdewinder. SO if we are talking ZX12R the Akra does not do it for the 12
Hi Vincent,
I respect both your word and your knowledge which puts me in a quandry. I have a friend with same year, same everything 12 which dynoed 2hp more then mine stock to stock. He had his shop mount and tune a step hindle. I had the same shop mount and tune my akro. Even though my friend's 12, stock to stock made 2 hp more than mine. My akra made 4 hp more then his hindle. I remembered how disappointed he was and how mad he was at the mechanic who told him how great the hindles were. I attempted to placate him by tell him that I had also heard that the hindles were good pipes. Also, in dyno shootout after dyno shootout, my 1199cc 12 beat every other pipe it came up against, and I have the trophies to prove it. I do agree that real world performance and dyno shootouts are two different animals. In addition, like I wrote earlier, my tuner says nothing makes more than an akro, and he does have 100's of documented runs to support his claim. How could our experiences be so different? This really puzzles me....All I know is that if I ever become convinced that another pipe makes more hp, I will switch in a nano-second... How many 1361s have you seen that make 212 rwhp?
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VincentHill
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posted December 17, 2006 05:44 AM
Mega, NOW I really understand exactly where you are coming from and If I had the same experience I would also think and say the exact same thing. We are truly a product of our experiences. In my case I had a Akrapovich and loved it! I liked the Look and sound with the CF Muffler. When compared the the Step Hindle (If you look back) I said that I did not like the "Industrial" looking welds of the Hindle compared to the Akra "Jewlers" precision welds. I even said that I was Hoping that the Hindle failed because I wanted to Keep the Akra. BUT on the exact same dyno with the Akra's Mapping the Hindle made (You guessed it) 2 HP More. AND when I got a proper map and tuned the mapping I made 6 more HP and with a Sound meter it was 3 Db's quieter than the Akra. I then sold the Bought Used Akra for exactly what I paid for the Hindle.
It may have something to do with factory Cam timing because Bergie put one on a 2001 ZX12R and with "NO" Powercommander made right at 180 HP and on the same Dyno a friends 1270 full Muzzy and Air FIlters out made 180 HP but about 6 LESS in Torque.
Last, I had a true 4-1Akra and I think you have a 4-2-1 Akra. I also think you have the short tube 4-2-1 and the Hindle he has may be the Long Tube 4-"2"-1. I have the Short tube 4-"2"-1. All of these things are factors but you would think that they would have favored the Akra in "My" Case??
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Megabyte
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posted December 17, 2006 09:10 AM
Well said Vincent! There are more variables then carter has pills
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Big CC Racing
Novice Class
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posted December 17, 2006 09:23 AM
quote:
What does Kawasaki use in AMA superbike and even in MotoGP? Akrapovic....
Look at the pipes on the ACE PERFORMANCE bikes at Maxton that set 8 new records, beating the previous records by an average of 2-5mph...
Akrapovic.....
Oh, and about peak horsepower.... that's cool if you're looking for a pretty number, but what's most important is..
1. The power curve leading up to peak power
2. How long it holds peak power
Most importantly..
3. How it runs in the REAL WORLD, not the dyno room.
Akro is a good system on many bikes but i found it on the 12r its just average. You cant guarantee it right on every bike. No exhaust manufacturer can claim the best for every model.
Regarding race bikes, they use what they get sponsored with simple. I race with Rock oil cos its free & does the job. if you were a privateer paying for your exhaust you would fit the hindle all day every day because of cost to power factors in case you binned it.
All else of what you also say is very relevent too.
the one thing you have to bear in mind above all else is make sure you get the bike custom mapped for best results with any pipe. Anyone who sell you a system & says it dont need mapping cos the air fule is the same is kinda like saying the exhaust does not do anything.
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VincentHill
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posted December 17, 2006 04:54 PM
quote:
Well said Vincent! There are more variables then carter has pills
It can get Scary around here when we all start to actually "UNDERSTAND" Each other 
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zrxdean
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posted December 17, 2006 05:08 PM
I made more top end hp with the Muzzy 4-1 sidewinder, but had a ~6500 torque dip that would've been irksome on the street.
But if you want to make REAL power, you need this kind of 4-1 exhaust system  -Dean
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VincentHill
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posted December 18, 2006 06:02 AM
Dean you really need Prayer!! (But you are correct!)
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dougmeyer
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posted December 18, 2006 09:24 PM
Phantom,
Don't be naive. Product usage is a business arangement determined by who offers the best deal. The products are rarely the same as offered to the general public, they built to the specs requested by the team.
D.
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crashtech
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posted December 19, 2006 06:54 PM
I feal good about swapping my muzzy 4-1 to the ti-force 4-2-1. I need more smoothness and drivability as well as mid-range. I will have a perfect condition muzzy stainless/ carbon oval full system for sale in a couple weeks. evan has fresh race tools packing.. and a show polished mid-pipe. I will post it in classifieds when its off of bike.
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