entropy
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posted November 26, 2006 12:34 PM
Dynos: Dynojet vs Factory Pro????
I have been going to DJ Dynos for 6 years and find the info very useful.
BUT, Andy @ Metric MC in Hou is a guy I know (and trust) very well and he now has a FactoryPro. I had my heap on his dyno last week and will be going again as soon as I get my bigger injectors on it.
He is less than an hour from my house and runs his shop & dyno like an operating theater.
Anyone have experience with DJ vs Factory Pro???
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shane661
Needs a life
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posted November 26, 2006 12:43 PM
 Edited By: shane661 on 26 Nov 2006 12:44
Well, I know that Factory Pro has a lot of info on their dyno on their website. They compare it to others, etc.
http://www.factorypro.com/dyno/indexdy.html
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entropy
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posted November 26, 2006 12:47 PM
yep, they are a wealth of info. I'd just like to get some "user input".
One great thing about the factorypro is that Andy uses it in load control mode and now i won't have to worry about my SC-2 having too much tread when i go back to the Texas Mile in March. 
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12r1
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posted November 26, 2006 12:49 PM
From what I've seen/heard, they're both very good for tuning, but the FP gives much lower peak numbers. That does'nt mean that your 12 is only putting down 145hp. It's just on a different scale. You can have your bud dial er in for ya, than if you like, go get a big DJ number.
There is a guy near here, with the FP set-up. Much more personable than the couple DJ doods that are also close. I'd prob go with him if I were interested in fine tuning my 12.
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entropy
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posted November 26, 2006 01:08 PM
I have seen big numbers on a DJ and am not worried about smaller numbers on the FP. I did a buncha pulls on a new-ish DJ 3 weeks ago (210hp), and a couple hours on a FP 2 weeks ago(185hp).
The shape of the curves were very similar and the FP confirmed that my hi rpm gremlin is not a figment of the DJ's imagination. I'm missing 15hp and I WILL find out where it is hiding.
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canadamaxxer
Pro
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posted November 26, 2006 02:05 PM
I've run on both, and while the DJ's numbers are bigger, I trust the tuning capabilities of the Factory Pro more. I've run over 200 hp on very happy DJ dyno's, consistant 185-195 hp on a few different DJ dyno's, and 163HP on the factory pro...all with the same 1270 bike. I know the number is lower, but I trust the relative numbers (especially with the proper time taken to set the dyno up to the bike) more than the happy DJ numbers....especially when it comes to part throttle tuning....
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
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posted November 26, 2006 02:55 PM
from what i understand, the FP numbers are "true" rear wheel HP, whereas the DJ uses software approximation of either output shaft or crank HP (not sure which). the relative numbers, which are what matter when tuning, should be equally accurate on both (assuming you're not trying to measure improvements due to a lighter wheel or better bearings, altho even that may not make a diff). as to load control... that is available on DJ too, just that most people don't seem to buy that model. i seem to recall Superflow can be programmed to put out FP-like or DJ-like numbers.
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Johnnycheese
Pro
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posted November 26, 2006 06:02 PM
they are the same except the FP uses some "true" numbers that the rest of the world doesn't.
bottom line is operator and set up
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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supra5677
Pro
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posted November 26, 2006 06:54 PM
Mark Salvisburg is a nice guy, he's actually working on some v stacks for
the 12r. (as soon as I get him my bike) his dynos read very low compared to
dyno jet especially std scales
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tcchin
Zone Head
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posted November 26, 2006 11:55 PM
Edited By: tcchin on 27 Nov 2006 00:35
Here is a link to a reprinted article from Roadracing World that summarizes my trackside experience with the two brands of dynos in AMA Superbike competition. I have had sponsorship from both companies, and have had detailed technical discussions about this article with representatives from both companies. Hope this helps.
http://www.factorypro.com/magazine/Dissapointed_Ronchetto.html
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entropy
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posted November 27, 2006 09:01 AM
Edited By: entropy on 27 Nov 2006 09:02
tcchin: THANKS!!! very cool and concise article.
an excerpt:
"Dynojet's test procedures are based on sweep tests, where horsepower and oxygen levels in the exhaust gas are evaluated during a steady-throttle run-up (sweep) through the engine's operating range. In this procedure, horsepower is derived from the angular acceleration of a ~900lb. rotating drum that's driven by the rear wheel.
This differs significantly from Factory Pro's procedures where horsepower and four exhaust gases are evaluated in quasi-static,
steady-throttle, fixed-RPM step tests that increment through the engine's operating range. In this procedure, each fixed-RPM run is a separate test and horsepower is derived from the steady-state force that the rear wheel exerts on a lightweight rotating drum.
Clearly, because the Factory Pro system calculates horsepower under steady-state (zero acceleration) conditions, it is not an inertial type system. Since it is not an inertial device, it need not be calibrated to the inertial characteristics of the test vehicle, thus the risk of error introduction is non-existent.
Note that Dynojet also makes dynos that include an eddy-current brake, such as the model 250, but that addition brings with it both advantages and disadvantages. The advantages are that the oxygen level readings can be better synchronized with the power readings by controlling the rate of acceleration, and by actively controlling the rate of deceleration, wear on the test vehicles' mechanical systems can be reduced. The disadvantages include the fact that the horsepower readings are obfuscated even further. With the addition of an eddy- current brake to the system, the calibration software must take into consideration both the inertial forces from the drum and the power absorption of the eddy-current brake. "
Tim Chin
X Dot Racing
Whittier, CA
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Phantom Menace
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posted November 27, 2006 01:17 PM
Entropy, don't you have a datalogger? Why not tune for real world conditions like ACTUAL load and ACTUAL airflow (not just fans in a static dynoroom)?
In my experience, what the dyno "likes" isn't always what works in the real world...
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entropy
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posted November 27, 2006 09:08 PM
quote:
Entropy, don't you have a datalogger? Why not tune for real world conditions like ACTUAL load and ACTUAL airflow (not just fans in a static dynoroom)?
In my experience, what the dyno "likes" isn't always what works in the real world...
Phantom,
yep, i do have a datalogger and it is very useful at a track where you can stay in a gear at WOT to near limiter . I definitely agree that whatever shows up on the dyno needs to be tweaked for the track, mile or 1/4 mi.
BUT, I am looking to find my 20hp thief (injectors?) and the LM-1 on the street isn't helping. 
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frEEk
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ummm... yeah
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posted November 28, 2006 01:19 AM
quote:
Note that Dynojet also makes dynos that include an eddy-current brake, such as the model 250, but that addition brings with it both advantages and disadvantages. The advantages are that the oxygen level readings can be better synchronized with the power readings by controlling the rate of acceleration, and by actively controlling the rate of deceleration, wear on the test vehicles' mechanical systems can be reduced. The disadvantages include the fact that the horsepower readings are obfuscated even further. With the addition of an eddy- current brake to the system, the calibration software must take into consideration both the inertial forces from the drum and the power absorption of the eddy-current brake
i take it this is to say that the ddy current dyno can't be used to hold the bike's speed at steady state? i thought/assumed it could. if so this woudl invalidate that argument.
besides that, i've often wondered if sweep tests wouldnt be a more accurate tool for tuning HP for acceleration (ie. the 1/4 mile)? obviously steady state tuning is better for land speed.
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Johnnycheese
Pro
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posted November 28, 2006 04:04 PM
Karl they both use the same eddiecurrent brake they are the same
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tcchin
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posted November 28, 2006 11:34 PM
Chassis dynos can only simulate real life conditions. If you use the same dyno to do all of your testing and only measure the differences, then yes, they are all pretty much the same. The difference is in the software and the tuning criteria used. FP dynos display bhp in real time in conjunction with exhaust gas chemistry. DJ Winpep software displays A/F in real time, then shows you a graph of bhp after the sweep test is complete. I would imagine that the DJ could be made to do step tests, but I have never seen an operator do so. Even if they could, the primary tuning parameter is still A/F, which is circumstantial at best. FP can do sweep tests, but they choose to use the step test because they have had better real-life results with them.
Some very fast machines get tuned on both brands of dynos. Poorly-trained operators can screw-up the state of tune of a vehicle on any kind of dyno. The more data you get from your dyno run, the more confidence you can have in your results. A/F alone, in my mind, is insufficient to adequately describe the combustion environment within an engine.
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entropy
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posted November 29, 2006 04:18 AM
Edited By: entropy on 29 Nov 2006 04:19
tcchin:
WHOA!!!
I cut & paste a reference from tcchin, and didn't even notice that the author of the material is Tim Chin.
Are you guys related??? 
Thanks again for the info. EXACTLY what I was looking for.
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tcchin
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posted November 29, 2006 11:56 AM
My pleasure.
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park12r
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posted December 10, 2006 07:00 AM
http://www.factorypro.com/magazine/mag_cyclecanada_Dynojet_dyno.html
http://www.factorypro.com/dyno/dyno_compare.html
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entropy
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posted December 11, 2006 01:20 AM
park: very cool site! Thanks!!
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magzx12r
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posted December 11, 2006 06:19 AM
quote:
...BUT, Andy @ Metric MC in Hou is a guy I know (and trust) very well and he now has a FactoryPro. I had my heap on his dyno last week and will be going again as soon as I get my bigger injectors on it.
He is less than an hour from my house and runs his shop & dyno like an operating theater...
I have used Andy a good bit over the years, when he was at Klaus and since he has had his own shop. I plan to get some dyno tuning done at his shop in the near future. His dyno reads lower than the Dynojet dyno's, but I am more concerned with the amount of increase.
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Mark
'03 ZX-12R
'12 1199S
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entropy
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posted December 11, 2006 07:16 AM
quote:
quote:
...BUT, Andy @ Metric MC in Hou is a guy I know (and trust) very well and he now has a FactoryPro. I had my heap on his dyno last week and will be going again as soon as I get my bigger injectors on it.
He is less than an hour from my house and runs his shop & dyno like an operating theater...
I have used Andy a good bit over the years, when he was at Klaus and since he has had his own shop. I plan to get some dyno tuning done at his shop in the near future. His dyno reads lower than the Dynojet dyno's, but I am more concerned with the amount of increase.
Mark,
as fellow 12 nuts, we ought to meet up at Andy's to chit chat, maybe next fri or sat?.
He is re-doing my old head right now and we have a program of dyno tuning/testing my heap planned for mid Jan. GREAT guy, runs his shop like an operating theater, extreme attention to detail.
Like you, I am not concerned about his FP numbers being lower than DJ, I am concerned about improvements.
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magzx12r
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posted December 11, 2006 09:00 AM
Let me know when you are going to his shop. I will probably be there this Friday.
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Mark
'03 ZX-12R
'12 1199S
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entropy
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posted December 11, 2006 09:11 AM
quote:
Let me know when you are going to his shop. I will probably be there this Friday.
noon?? I can do it!
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magzx12r
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posted December 12, 2006 07:11 AM
Sounds like a plan.
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Mark
'03 ZX-12R
'12 1199S
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