mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted October 02, 2006 01:12 PM
roadracing a zx12?
I've got an 02 zx12r that is carpenter built. (1290)It puts down 195 hp on pump fuel on a dynojet 250. I have upgraded the brakes slightly (hh pads and steel braided hoses) The wheels are marchesini forged aluminum wheels.
Earlier this year the stock clutch basket failed so i had to go back in to the motor. Right now the cranks at ape getting lightened and balanced. I bought falicon knifed edged rods, ceramic tranny bearings, od 5th and 6th gears, billet clutch basket, and removing counter balancer. According to ape I will lose nearly 5 pounds off the crank and i hear the counter balancer is worth a couple of pounds too. This should hopefully make the bike a little easier to throw around on the track.
Has anyone on this forum turned there zx12 in to a roadrace bike and if so what else did you do to it?
I wonder if its worth throwing some more money into it.
Heres my list of possible adds, please feel free to add to my list if you think it would be necessary.
Brembo calipers and rotors $1100
race tech suspension $850
Race body work (who makes kits and how much?)
I am an experienced track rider (6 years worth) and my zx12 has always been used for trackdays, dragracing and everyday riding. Currently i've been doing track days with my zx14.
I know there are better bikes to choose from(for track duty) other than my zx12 but as you can see I own the new 14. I own the 12 outright and i figure its still a great bike. This is the reason im considering the 12 as a trackbike. I don't want my 12 sitting in the garage collecting dust.
I appreciate any thoughts or suggestions! thanks
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
  
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted October 02, 2006 01:29 PM
you should do well..
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stef12rr
Expert Class
Posts: 144
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posted October 02, 2006 04:02 PM
mrsantafe let's go , I did do some trac day this summer at Mont Tramblant in Quebec et i upgrade my 04 zx12 the brake (WAVE ) exhause power commader, in my shop i did some part lighter then the original an it pay of my next step is to put a 1270cc and find a lighter back wheel like (zx 10) for transition on short coner, I got 26 years of expérience on road an only 2 track day , i don't kick the 1000cc butt yet in coner , but in the straight a way i past then like if is a scooter
attention no balancer = vibration
light crank less torque
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WARBIRD
Needs a job
Posts: 2739
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posted October 02, 2006 04:15 PM
swft can help you with your question.............he smoked a few litre bikes at the track I do believe.........  
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I'd Rather Be Roadracing.
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zx12adam
Member
Posts: 878
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posted October 02, 2006 05:44 PM
I only did one trackday with my 12, it was a tight track too, nothing but corners. HarryZX12 has done several at that same track and he knows his 12's so he's a good source.
The only problems I had were the brakes turned blue and black and taco'ed to all hell. The suspension wasn't set-up(sag or clickers) and I had problems touching down the pipe and pegs.
Personally for me the brakes would need upgraded 1st, set-up the stock suspension(sag, clickers, raise the rear or lower the front) or get it revalved/sprung if new isn't in the budget, rear-sets with a highmount pipe for some clearence, then lighter wheels. Some people go with a shorter/stiffer 7R swingarm but I kinda like the longer stocker, makes getting out of corners real easy with gradual predictable slides but the shorter swinger will speed up your turn-in/transitions but that really wasn't an issue for some reason. Light bodywork and if your tires are shagged from one edge to the other and feel slippery then better tires. Tires too grippy with the stock suspension might cause chatter depending on your pace.
Oh and make sure your PCIII is tuned for smooth throttle transitions and a flat torque curve(IMPORTANT!!!) even at the cost of a few peak hp, it will help alot more than peak hp/jagged curve with corner exits. Let me know if anyone thinks otherwise, I have a good theory on this.
Other than that some frame strengthening might be in order but that's down the road and would need extensive R&D to get the right amount in the right areas.
If it was in the budget I'd love to roadrace/trackday a 12 but the brakes/suspension/rear-sets/high mount exhaust/DOT's is beyond my budget. Good Luck.
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CBR1000RR
Best Literbike: Performance Bikes, Superbike, BIKE, MCN, Road Racing World, and Motorcycle USA
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted October 03, 2006 04:30 PM
 Edited By: flite leader on 3 Oct 2006 17:32
performance bikes magazine has tested several dozen bikes
around their test track in england
the zx12r ranked 3rd until just a few months ago
with consideration in several areas
with that top end hit
the most noticable disadvantage is the stock suspension
and that hit occuring when heeled over
other than weight (lose 200lbs=-dramatic results)
when riding the twisties
takes care of almost all your other concerns
good luck
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bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted October 03, 2006 05:45 PM
Long wheelbase for a sportbike. She ain't gonna be fun in the turns. Prepare for a workout.
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megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted October 03, 2006 07:30 PM
Edited By: megabyte on 3 Oct 2006 20:31
quote:
Has anyone on this forum turned there zx12 in to a roadrace bike and if so what else did you do to it?
I appreciate any thoughts or suggestions! thanks
Talk to SWFT. I believe he did everything humanly possible to turn his 12 into a track bike but He finally threw in the towel I wish it was a possibility, though.
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We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted October 03, 2006 07:42 PM
Edited By: GUNNER on 3 Oct 2006 20:45
WHY??? Get a 10R and you will soon ask yourself "What was I thinking?"
I can go fast on my 12R and until I got the 10 I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread.. NOW days I can go insanely fast on the 10R and when I do on occasion ride the 12 I ask myself that same question...
Man I love the 12R but she's like a fat girl on the dance floor..  I never thought I could feel that way about a bike I loved so much
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Wideout
Expert Class
Posts: 300
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posted October 04, 2006 05:25 AM
Looks like he's got an '06 10. Nice stable..
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swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted October 04, 2006 05:37 AM
There ya go. My intent was to use the 12R as a endurance bike. But even with 70 lbs off the bike, the weight would really show itself. And there is such a thing as 'too much' at the track. I'd come out of the slow sections and she'd just want to point her nose up in the air. Wheelies are fun down the front straightway, but when you click it into fourth and the nose *still* won't come down, you realize you are going to have to roll off just so you can TURN the bike at the end of the straight. What else is fun? Spokane, coming out of 2/3, you straighten up and litterally bunny-hop over the short hills before doing the big whoa into turn 4. The one thing I could say is that if I could see it on the straight in front of me, I could pass it...But honestly, my SV650 could turn faster laps at Seattle than the 12R would. No getting around the weight and wheelbase.
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted October 04, 2006 06:25 AM
Hey Mr. Why don't you just give me a call???? 
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted October 04, 2006 06:35 AM
There are some advantages to running a strong 12 on the track.
Most of the time with proper gearing, you don't have to dance on the gear shift lever.
Corner exit's are more fun with lots of torque. Plus, you don't have to rev the piss out of it to go fast. That helps keep the gyro affect of the crank etc. to a minimum.
A properly set up chassis can be a surprising thing, mine turns in quick AND stable. Of course a Race Tech Suspention is a must. You can also keep the wheelbase short by keeping the rear axle as forward as possible by removing a couple links.
Brakes? I have the Brake Tech Billet Iron rotors. With cp911 pads, Matt Hartlieb can use the same braking points as is 06' susuki superstock 600. That's with stock calipers and braided lines.
Want more details? You can call me.......
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted October 04, 2006 08:06 AM
Hey psycho1122 i'll give you a buzz. Thanks fellas for the advice I really like the zx10 but the wife isn't have any part of me using her bike for roadracing. As of right now we both do trackdays together. I have had the pleasure of ripping it up on the track with the zx10 on the local track sandia motorsports and will simply say its awesome.
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GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted October 04, 2006 08:58 AM
quote:
Looks like he's got an '06 10. Nice stable..
AND so he does!!!!!!!!!! My bad I didn't notice.. It seems he likes it to.
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blubyu
Expert Class
Posts: 209
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posted October 06, 2006 03:55 AM
mrsantafe,
I like the goodies goodies you have on the 12, and it's blue 2! When it's time to sell, make sure you pm me first!!
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Zaphod Breeblebox
Expert Class
Posts: 117
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posted October 10, 2006 08:34 AM
Edited By: Zaphod Breeblebox on 10 Oct 2006 09:36
mrsantafe -
I have been doing track days on my mostly-stock 2000 ZX-12R for over 4 years. Here are some things I would consider for making it a dedicated track bike:
-- Trim all all the fat that you can afford. The bike responds beautifully to weight loss. (When I replaced the stock exhaust with an Arata full titanium system I shed 20 lbs and was amazed by the difference in the dynamic behavior of the bike!) --- Aside from a lighter exhaust, other candidates would be lightweight wheels and basically shedding anything from the bike that you don't need. CF gas tank, etc., etc.
-- Upgrade the stock suspension. The options are well-documented, but the biggest problem is that the rear has too much spring rate.
-- You will not find race bodywork. Anywhere. OK, Sebimoto makes carbon fiber aftermarket stuff, but I think I'd just try to get some used stock bodywork off a salvage bike.
--There is no place to mount frame sliders. If you go down, you will fuck something up.
--As others have mentioned, having so much torque available means less shifting so you can be very smooth on the track.
All in all I have really enjoyed taking my Zx-12R to the track, but to be honest if I wanted a more focused track machine I'd start with a liter bike.
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Zaphod
Y2K ZX-12R
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted October 10, 2006 09:28 AM
Edited By: psycho1122 on 10 Oct 2006 10:34
This is where you can get some sliders that actually work:
http://www.whaccessories.com/ZX-R%20Accessories.htm
Here is where you can get some racing bodywork:
http://catalystracingcomposites.com/
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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Zaphod Breeblebox
Expert Class
Posts: 117
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posted October 10, 2006 09:46 AM
quote:
This is where you can get some sliders that actually work:
http://www.whaccessories.com/ZX-R%20Accessories.htm
Here is where you can get some racing bodywork:
http://catalystracingcomposites.com/
Well, I'll be goddamned. How did I miss that bodywork all these years? Seems like I looked at that site a few months ago but they didn't offer uppers for the 00-01 bikes?
I like the sliders that are down near the footpegs. I just wish there were a place on the bike to mount some a bit higher up, to keep the bike from levering over on itself.
Thanks!
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Zaphod
Y2K ZX-12R
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted October 10, 2006 10:06 AM
I have lowsided and used my upper body strength to "keep it up" per say. Just a few small scratches on the very lower.
I would LOVE to ice the cake on my set up and go with light weight wheels. I'm currently 495 lbs. with 1 gallon of gas on board. I wonder how much more wight I would loose with aftermarket wheels?
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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Zaphod Breeblebox
Expert Class
Posts: 117
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posted October 10, 2006 10:27 AM
quote:
I would LOVE to ice the cake on my set up and go with light weight wheels. I'm currently 495 lbs. with 1 gallon of gas on board. I wonder how much more wight I would loose with aftermarket wheels?
If you had forged magnesium or BST carbon wheels, you'd probably lose another 15 pounds or so - of rotating mass. It would probably make an enormous difference (in your bank account, too!).
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Zaphod
Y2K ZX-12R
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted October 12, 2006 07:38 AM
7 1/2 lb's weight reduction with marchesinis.
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Otis
Needs a job
Captain Kickstand
Posts: 3028
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posted October 12, 2006 10:35 AM
Everyone here is correct. I took my 12 to the track twice, then bought a 10R. There is no comparison as Gunner has stated. But if you HAVE to ride your fat 12 then do whatever possible to trim weight, and you must get an Ohlins or Penske rear shock and new forks up front to handle the weight, and you must upgrade your brakes significantly, not just with better pads.
I took 5 seconds off my 12R lap times at Grattan just by switching to the 10R. That's huge.
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GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted October 12, 2006 10:43 AM
It really don't make sence to spend the money on the 12R to get it up to race specs and still fall short compared to the 10R. I above all people know what's it's like to spend money foolishly on a bike that you love BUT should walk away from.. I undestand about not wanting to face the fact that our beloved 12R isn't what we once thought it was or perhaps it was AT ONE TIME! Times have changed and so has the sliding scale that measures what a sportbike is.. BTW I still own a 12R as well and as much as I hate to say it the bike does NOTHING for me now when I ride it.. It hurt to face those facts.
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Otis
Needs a job
Captain Kickstand
Posts: 3028
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posted October 12, 2006 10:57 AM
Edited By: Otis on 12 Oct 2006 11:59
quote:
I hate to say it the bike does NOTHING for me now when I ride it.. It hurt to face those facts.
Yes it does hurt < sniff sniff > I loved that ol' girl too, cottage cheese thighs and all. Can't bring myself to sell her though.
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