VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted September 28, 2006 03:20 PM
 Edited By: VincentHill on 28 Sep 2006 16:31
I "AM Confused now! Leak Down test!
I used the Leak down tester and have no Idea if what I saw was correct!
I have th Dual Guage model with a PSI Gauge and Percentage gauge.
I Screwed in the Adaptor and hooked up the Compressor and turned up the air pressure At about 20 PSI, the % Gauge was reading Zero! Does that mean that I do not have leakage? The instructions are dumb and I called the people that made it and that was a LIE! He said that I turn the dial until I Read 0 PSI and the number on the other side was % of "SEAL" not loss. Well at 0 air pressure it shows about 5%! The Problem is, Hooked up the same way but not in the engine it shows the same thing! What am I doing wrong here?
The Kit I have looks "Somthing" like this!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
  
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chuck762
Novice Class
Posts: 47
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posted September 28, 2006 04:31 PM
Vicent
I have an older APE leakdown tester and while I don't have the instructions in front of me (it along with most of my tools are sitting in storage) if I remember right it said to test it at 100 psi which is what the input side gauge should read then the second gauge will tell you what the cylinder is holding. It came with a conversion for psi loss to a % of leak down. On my set both gauges are the same and numbered to 100 psi.
http://www.aperaceparts.com/tools.html
Oh, hi everyone. My first post here. I just picked up a 02 ZX12 and have been reading this site and others sucking up info.
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VincentHill
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posted September 28, 2006 05:16 PM
Glad to have you here! this one does not use 100 PSI has a Warning to never go past 100 and even at 20 PSI the other guage is at "0" Loss without being in the Cylinder!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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chuck762
Novice Class
Posts: 47
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posted September 28, 2006 05:35 PM
Thanks Vicent.
Silly question and forgive me for it but I have to ask as I am used to having to pry info out of press crews as to why the equipment they called me out to fix doesn't work.
When connected to an air supply do you get air out of the hose that goes into the cylinder?
Does it have a quick disconnect line going to the threaded adapter that needs to be plugged in to get air to flow? No air flow and it will read 0% loss. Might have a defective gauge if you get air flow. Just out of curiosity what is the main body that the gauges screw into made of? If the gauge is bad you can pick them up through industrial stores like MSC or local places. Oh and I PMed you on the other board about the stacks.
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aliveagain
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posted September 28, 2006 06:27 PM
Beats me how you could get an accurate reading with a quick disconnect on the end to the motor.Those things leak frequently.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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GUNNER
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posted September 28, 2006 06:40 PM
Edited By: GUNNER on 28 Sep 2006 19:49
Geeez guys. You dial the PSI to 100 and plug the hose up. Both gauges will read 100 before you hook up the hose. The gause NOT connected to the reulator will show the leakage. 100 pounds is the number used because it makes figuring % of loss easy. If the second gauge drops to 95 pounds that's 5% leakage. It will always leak something because of ring gap. For years when I had turbo bikes with constant burned valves and shit I wouldn't let anyone near my shit with one of those. I hated a leak down test because they NEVER told me anything I wanted to hear.. When I had my 10R head off back in the spring I checked it for the first time. I was amazed!!! It was like 1% across the board!!! I have never been so happy after one of these test.. AND that was stone cold! Man I was a proud feller that day.. And the leakage it had was by the end gaps on the rings. Back in the Z 1 days we always warmed the motor first. But it's next to impossible to do that these days...GOOD LUCK VINCE!
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VincentHill
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posted September 29, 2006 12:40 AM
quote:
Thanks Vicent.
Silly question and forgive me for it but I have to ask as I am used to having to pry info out of press crews as to why the equipment they called me out to fix doesn't work.
When connected to an air supply do you get air out of the hose that goes into the cylinder?
YES
Does it have a quick disconnect line going to the threaded adapter that needs to be plugged in to get air to flow?
YES
No air flow and it will read 0% loss.
Yes
Might have a defective gauge if you get air flow. Just out of curiosity what is the main body that the gauges screw into made of? If the gauge is bad you can pick them up through industrial stores like MSC or local places. Oh and I PMed you on the other board about the stacks.
You have Made my Day!
Now the Instructions make sense and the Idiot in Tech Support is just that!
It will work now and the Instructions had a problem stating that turn the Knob until the pressure reaches "0" In the Yellow Zone. Problem was it also states the Pressure Guage attached to the Regulator which is the pressure Gauge not the % Gauge.
Now to Hook it up tomorrow and see if I can make sense out of what I read and we will see what we see!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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VincentHill
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posted September 29, 2006 01:30 AM
Edited By: VincentHill on 29 Sep 2006 03:00
Let me add that Even the Idiot was right in one respect that the Gauge reads the % of Seal! so you start with 0% in the Yellow zone which means 100% leaking and you end yo with 92% (In the Red ZOne means you have 8% leakage
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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VincentHill
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Posts: 6520
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posted September 29, 2006 05:34 AM
quote:
Let me add that Even the Idiot was right in one respect that the Gauge reads the % of Seal! so you start with 0% in the Yellow zone which means 100% leaking and you end you with 92% (In the Red ZOne means you have 8% leakage
I forgot to add to do this you must flow the air with everything hooked up and set the regulator then screw the adaptor into the Head and see what the difference is!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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chuck762
Novice Class
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posted September 29, 2006 06:44 AM
Glad ya got it figured out.
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VincentHill
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posted September 29, 2006 07:11 AM
I got the News and it is not good!
I was fairly Sure DM Had it correct
#4 about 8%
#3 about 8%
#2 about 23%
#1 about 28%
My guess is that #1 received the Big Load and since #2 is right behind it in Firing, it got the ramainder of the load and by the time it got to #4 the Event was over.
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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GUNNER
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posted September 29, 2006 08:05 AM
Damn! That looks like a reading from one of my turbo bike motors!!!!!!!!!!NOW it's clear why I have NO turbo bikes in my garage!!! Thanks for that trip down memory lane Vince.. Sorry for the BAD luck there.... Now you know first hand why I hate doing a leak down test.... They have a way of making you feel very sick inside 
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
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posted September 29, 2006 09:02 AM
time to pop the head
ouchie.
best of luck on the re-build
   
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aliveagain
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posted September 29, 2006 10:26 AM
Could be just a blown head gasket Vin.
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted September 29, 2006 08:19 PM
they also make a one gauge leak down tester
with experience both work good tell you the same
from your readings no doubt you will go into your engine
but after all your maxton runs & dyno pulls..........its about time
you mentioned a pop...........a boom ?
from the intake side or thru the exhaust ??????
when you get it taken apart read your engine carefully
im thinking valves.........
NOS will make springs bounce & rattle shims loose
a HP loss like you experienced would would not be unusual
make sure they are straight......havent been tagged......or tuliped(elongated)
your rings may be fatigued....would not normally cause a pow?!?!????
have you ever considered going to bigger primary injectors
not huge....... or monster bigger
just marginally larger injectors.....then wet spray NOS
reason being
larger injectors would be more consistently accurate
then youd only need to get the NOS right
your two(2) largest variables
are when you spray both gas & NOS
inconsistent distribution can be killer
you arent putting more air(radical cams......usually more lift) into your engine
your displacement is standard
you arent turning significantly more revs
so your only concerns are
correct air/fuel ratio + NOS under load =more HP
yet you mention your plugs have loaded up
usually happens with too much fuel
inconsistent flame propagation................usually a direct result
almost everyone runs tooooooo little ignition advance
a direct result of being overly cautious in consideration of detonation or preignition
(one or both) are deadly.......almost instantly
yet the consideration is wise......as long as you can get close
too be safe they retard tooooooo much
yet are almost always toooooo heavy with the spray
& fuel.....resulting in wet intake tracts ....cylinders.....plugs
big gulps of wetness that are impossible to control & are never consistent
out of that inefficiency.........too much fuel adds heat !!!!!! no less
not like what is experienced with being toooo lean .......which is
decidely different
but brings with it lots of crap.....aint good
no doubt all will be revealed soon
youll get it back together
probably better than new
good luck
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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VincentHill
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posted September 30, 2006 04:45 AM
WHile apart I plan to use the Heavier springs on "BOTH" Sides I have the stronger springs on the Intake but not the Exhaust! I was trying to avoid The extra loss of the heavier springs!.
I "WILL" take a look at all of the Valves while apart!
From looking at the Pistons, it does not look like I am too far away on the mixture. The pistons are not heavly coated or too clean either!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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blubyu
Expert Class
Posts: 209
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posted September 30, 2006 05:07 AM
I wanna see
Vince,
I feel like a 4ft kid trying to look over 4ft 6" wall!! I want to see what's going on with this tear down!! I could be gathering up some valuable engine building experience. SOoooooo I'm available afterwork and on some weekends to come down and give you a hand on anything you need. I'm not an engine builder, but I do know may way around a bike. Plus I need the experience. Shoot me a PM with you number , if you don't mind, so we can talk about this "Mentorship"! Remember, Each one, Teach one!! 
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