havin it
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted September 25, 2006 08:07 PM
05 zx12r
anyone know the best way to derestrict a 05 zx12r?
  
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countersteer
Needs a job
Didn't read the owners manual
Posts: 2207
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posted September 25, 2006 08:18 PM
the same way you would derestrict any other zx-12...
option one:
buy full exhaust system from brock, muzzys, tiforce, akraprovic, etc
buy power commander III
buy bmc high flow air filter
buy kleen block off plates
optional but not a derestriction: change gearing
also optional: buy speedo-healer or yellow box to correct speedo/restricted top speed.
you could go further by getting velocity stacks and other knick-knacks, but i dont think you really want to go further and start fucking with the engine.
option two:
buy a turbo kit
____________
Scott
Long Island, New York
2006 ZX-14, 2003 ZX-12R
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countersteer
Needs a job
Didn't read the owners manual
Posts: 2207
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posted September 25, 2006 08:21 PM
i was happy when i did a full pipe, pc3, filter, kleen plates and fooled around with the gearing. i am assuming that this thread was about suggested mods... so thats my opinion. also, try to get a custom map tailored for your bike if possible.
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Scott
Long Island, New York
2006 ZX-14, 2003 ZX-12R
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havin it
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted September 25, 2006 08:24 PM
thanks countersteer,i was refering specificly to the 300kph restriction.i was under the impression that the speedo healers or yellow boxes didnt work with the 32-bit ecu
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havin it
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted September 25, 2006 08:27 PM
i was hoping to get a nikko g-pach as it has too parts one for the ecu and one for the FI but they dont list one for the 05 model,or i cant find one anyways
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countersteer
Needs a job
Didn't read the owners manual
Posts: 2207
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posted September 25, 2006 08:38 PM
if you plan on breaking that restriction, you should also plan on significantly modifying your bike, even more than what ive posted up top. not sure about the 32 bit... hopefully someone knowledgable about this will chime in as im interested too.
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Scott
Long Island, New York
2006 ZX-14, 2003 ZX-12R
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GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted September 25, 2006 09:39 PM
The Muzzy box won't work on the new models.. Look at what Brock just did on the Maxton14 thread.. Speedo Healer set at 90% I think it was.
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havin it
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted September 26, 2006 03:43 AM
i believe the 12"s ecu takes its reading from the speed sensor rather than the speedo gauge,if this is true will the speedo healer by-pass the restriction? thanks to all for your input so far.
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Wideout
Expert Class
Posts: 300
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posted September 26, 2006 04:24 AM
DrRyanScarsella just ordered a nikko from France for his '05 to test. I'd wait until we find out what his results are (if Brock's 14 solution isn't viable). Ryan doesn't seem to have much faith in it working, but was willing to take the plunge to find out.
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havin it
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted September 26, 2006 05:11 AM
was the nikko specifically for a 05 bike? and if so what are the reasons that he isnt confident that it will work?
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted September 26, 2006 09:49 AM
The real question here is did Kawasaki finally get serious about speed restriction.
I designed the original speed derestrictor for the '01. Comparing the wiring diagrams of the '00 unrestricted model and the '01 I noticed they tapped off the speedo sensor wire and routed it to the ECU. I found if you cut the wire the ECU would throw an FI error so I devised a simple way to send it a bogus signal that never exceeded a 186mph. I cut the speedo wire to the ECU and feed the ECU back its own tach signal down the ECU speed input.
I figured the kawasaki engineers would figure out what we were doing sooner or later. The question is how far did they go. Do they still use the speedo sensor signal but with software to check it make sure its more realistic, or did they do away with the speedo signal all together.
You see the speedo signal is actually the engine output shaft speed signal. The thing is why measure it when you can calculate it. The ECU knows the engine RPM down to a fraction of a rotation. It knows what gear the bike is in via the gear position sensor. If you write into the software the gear ratios and tire circumfrence as constants then the ECU can calculate the probable bike speed. The only unknown is clutch slippage. But if your clutch is slipping in a significant way at 180+ mph its time to back off the engine anyway.
These calculations would be no problem for a 32bit CPU. The way to defeat this system is to fake out the ECU as to which gear your in. Make it think your in 5th gear instead of 6th and you will only be limited by engine redline.
Of course the next question is does the ECU change the fuel map between 5th and 6th. Will you reduce your available power by running in 5th vs 6th?
Some simple testing could answer these questions.
First I would wire a simple switch that would let me make the ECU think it was in 6th gear when in fact it was in 3rd gear. Then I would try to redline the bike in 3rd gear. If it won't redline with the switch on that is proof the ECU is calculating the speed, not using the speedo signal.
Next I would rewire the switch so I could make 6th look like 5th to the ECU. Then do some hi speed runs (or dyno runs) with the switch in both positions and see if you notice any significant difference in horsepower. Or of course see if you can go over 300kph / 186mph with the switch on
Here is a schematic that shows how to wire both a test switch and 5/6 switch. I don't have an '05 manual so you will have to look up the wire colors yourself or post the '05 wiring diagram and I will add the colors to the schematic.
http://www.olympus.net/personal/mbially/GEARFAKE.pdf
This is would only cost about $20 and some of your time. It may not work, but if it did it would be cheap fix if not your not out much.
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Wideout
Expert Class
Posts: 300
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posted September 26, 2006 11:48 AM
quote:
was the nikko specifically for a 05 bike? and if so what are the reasons that he isnt confident that it will work?
No, it is not.
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DrRyanScarsella
Expert Class
Posts: 113
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posted September 27, 2006 04:50 AM
The nikko g pack I ordered is from nikko direct out of france. It is for 05-06 12's. It is supposed to derestrict the 300 km rev limiter only. It doesnt effect the torque curve like the others claim to. This is the only option I have found making the claim. I am going to set up the gears and run it on a dyno past 300 km and hope for the best. It hasnt arrived yet, dont know the eta because it is coming from france.
I talked to Jen at speedo healer and she say they make no claim as to whether it derestricts, but it may if it comp reads off of speedo voltage. I was going to install one of htese next, just turn it way down.
As for my opinion of the g pack, I have low expectations due to the fact that they are dyno tested to do about nothing on earlier 12's. I just want to bypass 300 km restr. They claim to fool the ecu its in 5th if I remember correctly. I will keep everyone posted as to results.
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havin it
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted September 27, 2006 07:58 AM
thanks once again for everyones help and info.i"ll keep checking in for updates.i hope the nikko works as i only really want to go with a "plug n play" option.once the ristrictor is out the way i can start looking at pipe/filter/pc options then get it set up on a dyno.i want smooth throttle response and good fuelling while maintaining 100% reliability rather than outright power/noise,this is why i dont want to start cutting into the loom or other modifications which cant be put back to "factory" condition.if the nikko fools bike into thinking its in 5th gear this will mess up fueling with the ram air because if the bike is doing 10,000rpm in 2nd gear the bike will fuel for 10,000rpm in 5th gear.but you guys knew that already.i was hoping the nikko came with the other box for the FI as well but it seems i may have to wait for another solution.i"ll await your conclusions after you get to test and do the groundwork.i know im kinda freeloading on you but your help is much appreciated....thanks again
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted September 27, 2006 11:05 AM
If you look at the schematic I posted only gear 6 is modified to look like 5th. All the other gears report normally. It would require cutting up your wire harness tho.
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drryanscarsella
Expert Class
Posts: 113
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posted September 27, 2006 12:58 PM
I have seen the mod where you wire 6th into 5th. Requires some stripping and reattatchment. However, no one has proven this to be effective and some have said it adversly affected their performance. I am trying the plug and play and dyno, no point in hacking up oem harness unless need be.
doc
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drryanscarsella
Expert Class
Posts: 113
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posted October 05, 2006 11:51 AM
I got the gpack in today from france. Should have it on this weekend. I need to gear the bike for a 187 plus run, need a stock sprocket to go to the dyno and wind her up for the results. Ill post up after get dyno time.
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havin it
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted October 06, 2006 02:40 AM
good stuff,how much did you pay for the gpack? will await your feedback,good luck with it
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DrRyanScarsella
Expert Class
Posts: 113
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posted October 11, 2006 05:26 AM
G pack after shipping from france was about 115.00, took about two weeks. I will be testing at the maxton airstrip at the end of this month. I will keep everyone posted and ship and I will be posting pics and documentation as well. Hope to break 187 before the weekend is over, I would go try it on the streets but too many points on license now to be out doing that.
doc
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havin it
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted October 23, 2006 09:22 PM
any news on the g-pack? did it work?
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DrRyanScarsella
Expert Class
Posts: 113
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posted October 24, 2006 05:17 AM
I have installed the g pack as well as many other mods and things for maxton. I will be formally testing it this weekend to see how she fairs. I will be giving everyone and update as soon as I have an answer. Also, I am penciled in for a custom map and should be able to try and get her up to 187 plus on thurs or fri. Keep your fingers crossed, everything has been installed and with a good custom map, We will have an answer by mon.
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DrRyanScarsella
Expert Class
Posts: 113
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posted October 31, 2006 07:30 AM
I tested the g pack at maxton and had a blast. Its hard to say I proved the g pack to work. I clocked 186.30, the limiter kicks in at 186 on the speedo stock or did in the past. I buried the needle with this gearing, looked pinned and the revs were up past 10200 where I though the factory limiter kicked in. I cant say for sure that this mod worked, but I never hit a limiter this weekend and I truly feel like this bike had more left if I could have gotten a few more runs in. Personally I am not pissed about the purchase and am going to leave it installed for the spring run. I will give a more definitive report in the spring or if I can come up with a gps, maybe Ill go out and give it a try on the local highways with a rolling start.
In addition, I ran the bike almost set up as it comes from the factory as my baseline to see how it would fare in this trim. I ran stock motor, stock arm, stock tire press, 42psi. Mods were 40 shot, bmcs, yosh slip on, and pc with pc website map nothing special, no mirrors, and taped a few areas for aeros.
I have been riding and racing a bit, no pro by any means, but I feel there is more with a few runs with this same set up. I think might be able to eeeeek out 190 with good bottle pressure, and a full system. Going to change things for spring though, i want to go 200 plus, either going to have a turbo or a tough nos set up.
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capt10ed
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted November 02, 2006 12:36 AM
Dr, If you only cold have gone 188 // That way we would know for sure the bike is de-restricted......
____________
2014 Loring AFB 14 runs over 200mph
with a best of 208.1 in 1.5 miles
and 204.5 in the mile.
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havin it
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted November 12, 2006 03:49 PM
so still no definate answer?
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dw4402
Novice Class
Posts: 33
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posted November 12, 2006 07:33 PM
Well guys I can tell you with experience, if you wire the sixth gear wire to the fifth gear wire, you will not only not fool the computer, but you will loose some performance. I tried this mod months ago, with the bike being totally stock and I could feel a seat of the pants reduction in pull, and it still hit the speed limiter when the speedo read just past 185, so I'm guessing it was reading 186.
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David K. Williams
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