workman1000
Parking Attendant
Posts: 13
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posted May 01, 2002 07:44 PM
The throttle pull doesn't affect the performance at all. It just makes it a little easier to manipulate the throttle because of the difference in leverage.
Now this is just my opinion about the crankshaft as I understand it. The difference between a heavier crankshaft and a lighter one is this. An engine with a lighter crakshaft will rev quicker when NOT under a load and will decelerate quicker at off throttle because of the compression of the pistons slowing it down. This is an advantage to SERIOUS road racers because of two things. First, since they want to keep the bike in its powerband CONSTANTLY while they are on the track, at any point with a slight pull of the clutch and a twist of the wrist, they can rev the bike very quickly to the powerband. Second, it helps them to decelerate when they are off the throttle because of the drag of the engine. When on the track, every minute advantage helps.
An engine with a heavier crankshaft, while it doesn't rev as quick under a load, tends to keeps its momentum better. Now when we are talking redline, it doesn't matter. the difference is insignificant. It is at speeds in the low and midrange RPMs that you will notice. While not revving as quick with the clutch pulled in, the heavier crankshaft will tend to maintain its momentum better during roll ons and during low speed cruising. Also, it won't decelerate as hard because of the momentum of the crankshaft. This translates into a smoother ride with a more controlled power delivery. Especially at the low and midrange cruising RPMs. Much less of the on again/off again, herky jerky feel when riding around in town.
Ultimately it boils down to this. For all out racing on a road race track, the lighter crankshaft is better. Its responds quicker to a VERY skilled rider that knows how to manipulate the throttle to keep the bike in its powerband. Also, it help to slow down the bike during deceleration. But for anything else than all out road racing, the heavier crankshaft is better because it is more behaved and more forgiving. No matter how bad ass a street racer thinks he is, he is not pushing it to the limit. If he is on the public streets, he will not live long. When you come around that blind 60% curve on the public road, you better not be at 10,500RPMs and full trottle. Sooner or later you will die. For a fast and sane rider, it is more like 6,000RPMs and you are staring ahead intently for that cage that may be cutting the corner too sharp. But as soon as you see the road start to straighten and no cars, you roll on the throttle hard. Under this scenario, the heavier crankshaft will accelerate you out of the curve quicker. With the added advantage that it is much more civilized(smoother) in town. But, the engine drag won't help to slow you down as fast as the lighter crank. As far as drag racing is concerned, there is no appreciable difference since the bike is not traveling through the rev range. Just close to redline mostly.
Now after all this, keep this in mind. Most riders wouldn't notice the difference any way. But for wheelies, the heavier crankshaft makes them easier if all other things are the same. Heavier crankshaft equals more momentum. And momentum is what wheelies are all about.
  
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Rocket J
Zone Head
Goes to water over a dummy!!!
Posts: 602
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posted May 01, 2002 08:29 PM
 Edited By: Rocket J on 1 May 2002 21:39
Ya know...
It is a 1,200 cc motorcycle that makes in the neighborhood of 160 hp! It will pull the wheel with somebody sitting on the handlebar for crying out loud. I am talking any year: '00,'01 or '02. As for the first two years having jerky throttle response, that comment was made by journalists (who if they were such good riders would be in WSB or some such thing) who didn't spend that much time with the bike, and had an axe to grind. There are plenty of things that I would change, but not something that falls under the category of a new, unfamiliar bike. Go out and ride a Gold Wing. Because of its size, weight and luggage capacity, it will seem to handle like a pig, but after you ride it for a while, you will get used to it. It does the job it was designed for very well. The 12 does the job it was designed for just as nicely.
If the 12 would have obliterated the Hayabusa (and after having raced a stock 12 against a stock 'busa, I am starting to see merit in Doug Meyer's "ringer" theory), I don't believe that all that fuss would've of been made about the "crudeness" of the Kawasaki. It would of been labeled a "Man's Bike" or "Expert Only" not as it was perceived: as some poorly finished, half baked effort.
Rocket
____________
If I get any smarter, my head will explode!
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12r1
Expert Class
Posts: 390
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posted April 07, 2007 12:40 PM
Well, here in '07, I can honestly say that my current '02 12R will pull your arms off, as my '00 also would. The '00 may beat it at 180mph+, but up til there, I dunno.....
jeff
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted April 07, 2007 07:45 PM
hmmm I don't have any ZX12 issues I bought a ZX14, is the 12 even available nowadays?
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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muleskinner
Novice Class
Posts: 69
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posted April 08, 2007 05:02 PM
BOLT ON MUFFLER PROBLEM
This post plays into what I suspected. I could not put my finger on it, but since I installed my Yosh bolt on muffler I suspected I had lost torque down low. I noticed the bike would no longer lift the front tire 1st gear through 3rd gear from a five MPH rolling start. I suspected my Muzzy adjustable ignition rotor set at five degrees. I reinstalled the stock rotor, with no apparent change in low end torque. I have now reinstalled my stock muffler and as soon as I replace my worn out rear tire I will try it out and report back.
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted April 08, 2007 06:30 PM
Ha ha. No harm, no foul. My '02 just ran 189 in 3/4 of a mile, from a standing start. With 17/47...if you can't loop the bike in 1st, you need to get the bike to the shop, asap.
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muleskinner
Novice Class
Posts: 69
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posted April 09, 2007 10:58 AM
STOCK MUFFLER
Ok I could not wait for the tire to try it. With the stock muffler the bike now seems to not hit as hard from 7,000 RPM up. Now mind you this could be the loss of the exhaust noise making it seem not to hit as hard, because the bike now sounds like a Singer sewing machine. Way too quite for my tastes. I just could not tell. I will put the Yosh back on and try it agin in the morning.
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muleskinner
Novice Class
Posts: 69
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posted April 09, 2007 04:28 PM
Ok I put the Yosh can back on. The performance is much better than the stock can. The bike seems to rev quicker and pull harder everywhere in the RPM band. I rode it for about 100 miles this afternoon to make sure I was not just "hearing more power."
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NinjaNick
Needs a job
'08 ZX14 (Blue)
Posts: 4558
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posted April 09, 2007 04:43 PM
quote:
hmmm I don't have any ZX12 issues I bought a ZX14, is the 12 even available nowadays?
LOL.....that's fucked up right there Steve! 
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sndnga
Parking Attendant
Posts: 16
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posted April 10, 2007 07:21 AM
quote:
Ok I could not wait for the tire to try it. With the stock muffler the bike now seems to not hit as hard from 7,000 RPM up. Now mind you this could be the loss of the exhaust noise making it seem not to hit as hard, because the bike now sounds like a Singer sewing machine. Way too quite for my tastes. I just could not tell. I will put the Yosh back on and try it agin in the morning.
make up your mind. fist you say you have lost power using the slip on, and then you say you gained powered over the stock. whick one is it?
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countersteer
Needs a job
Didn't read the owners manual
Posts: 2207
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posted April 10, 2007 07:31 AM
not only that, but he also wasted money buying the slip-ons when he should have gone with a full system in the first place. what did he expect from a slip-on anyway?
____________
Scott
Long Island, New York
2006 ZX-14, 2003 ZX-12R
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muleskinner
Novice Class
Posts: 69
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posted April 10, 2007 04:13 PM
Reread my original post. I said since I installed my Yosh slip on I "Suspected" I had lost power. But I also installed the Muzzy adjustable ignition rotor at the same time. After switching back to the stock can and then back to the Yosh can, i now believe something else has caused the power loss, not the Yosh can.
As far as installing a full system I did not want to go to the expense and hassle of installing a Power Commander also. I have read too many posts where guys who have installed the Power Commander unit have had nothing but problems. The Yosh bolt on gave me the sound and what I believe to be the increase in power I wanted. So no I did not waste my money. And like you said, It's "my" money.
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted April 11, 2007 07:07 AM
FWIW, you can find full systems out there for $200....I have personally bought 2 full muzzy systems for $200.
You don't HAVE to get a pc3....a full pipe alone got the Muzzy/Doug Meyer Zx-12 @ Maxton 8 or 9 RWHP with lower weight and better aeros!
How many mods out there give you better aeros, more HP and less weight AT THE SAME TIME?!?!!
A.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted April 12, 2007 11:54 AM
The 00 does have a lighter crank than the 02. Also the ignition mapping is the ecu is different. So I would think the 00 would perform a little more aggressively..
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted April 15, 2007 09:36 PM
quote:
quote:
hmmm I don't have any ZX12 issues I bought a ZX14, is the 12 even available nowadays?
LOL.....that's fucked up right there Steve!
You know how it is...slip-ons...etc etc I had to say something phooked up 
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted April 16, 2007 10:36 AM
it is correct that adding an aftermarket pipe on an 02 will make it run rich.. The stock programming itself is rich for the catalytic converter..
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted April 16, 2007 02:17 PM
Ninjaman, Since when can someone else com on this board and talk this way and not have the Name Vincent Hill?? Kawasaki has always been like this! The Brought out the H1. which was a MF to ride and jeep the front on the Ground in 1969 and by 1975, any First year rider could handle it with the milder Porting and longer swingarm. Same thing with the H-2 750, the Z-1 when it became the KZ1000 and the 900 Ninja through its changes then the ZX11 C which became the Touring Bike ZX11D then the ZX12R and then the Last bike they made (Not allowed to mention it or I get Banned from here also!
The Rawness of the 00 makes it difficult to ride and takes more skill not to stall it and ride it fast. I bought a ZRX1100 because it was more raw than the ZRX1200. Now when I go for a ride I smile all the time because what I am riding FLEELS like a MOTORCYCLE!! I have not decided it one day I put the 12 back on the street but if I do, I will enjoy it again also
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted April 16, 2007 02:23 PM
Edited By: shane661 on 16 Apr 2007 15:44
quote:
Ninjaman, Since when can someone else com on this board and talk this way and not have the Name Vincent Hill?? Kawasaki has always been like this! The Brought out the H1. which was a MF to ride and jeep the front on the Ground in 1969 and by 1975, any First year rider could handle it with the milder Porting and longer swingarm. Same thing with the H-2 750, the Z-1 when it became the KZ1000 and the 900 Ninja through its changes then the ZX11 C which became the Touring Bike ZX11D then the ZX12R and then the Last bike they made (Not allowed to mention it or I get Banned from here also!
The Rawness of the 00 makes it difficult to ride and takes more skill not to stall it and ride it fast. I bought a ZRX1100 because it was more raw than the ZRX1200. Now when I go for a ride I smile all the time because what I am riding FLEELS like a MOTORCYCLE!! I have not decided it one day I put the 12 back on the street but if I do, I will enjoy it again also
Well, Vincent, I challenge you to run me, on motor, at the next Maxton event that you attend! My B1 model is not as tame as one might think (thanks to the Muzzy and the stacks you sold me)!!!!! LOL x10
Nothing I hate more than a mild power delivery!! Thank god the Muzzy runs rough down low and screams on top!!
For some reason, when I think about your A model vs. my B, I think: "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and enthusiasm every time....."
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted April 16, 2007 04:22 PM
He's got OD gears and is set-up for nos Shane, you know that!
Why not run me, n/a for n/a,
muzzy for muzzy,
STOCK BODYWORK FOR STOCK BODYWORK,
POWER COMMANDER FOR POWER COMMANDER
BMC race filter for BMC race filter
STOCK wheels vs stock wheels
We'll even run the same damn gearing!
I think you know how hard you'll get pulled! Oh....wait....here's the part where you bish out and go call Thomas Cronan to ride your bike since the B model is just too much, right?
Bring it (B)oring model!
A.
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted April 16, 2007 04:46 PM
Edited By: shane661 on 16 Apr 2007 17:58
Dude, you are 100 lbs. lighter? What are you trying to pull?
Thomas is about 20 lbs. heavier than you, but he still ran faster n.a., on my bike, than you have ever run at Maxton on motor. And he hit the limiter, due to my gearing, at the 3/4 mile mark.
I know you hate fair races, and prefer the race "fixed (like racing guys twice your weight)"...but get real, man. I see a B model in your future...give in to your true desires!!
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted April 16, 2007 05:04 PM
Sigh...shane....I have run n/a with a fairing ONE time at Maxton, it was after my B license run! 185 with 205 gearing.
Did the SAME THING at TX with the lighter wheels!
Do you REALLY Think I can't hit 190 n/a? Gimme a break man, I roll up to Maxton with 18/44 to your 17/46. Be a MAN and run the 18 toofer.....whats the worst that can happen? Another 17X.xx mph pass?
A.
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted April 16, 2007 05:07 PM
Look, Ali, I respect your accomplishments. But until your bike (maybe with a jockey?) can hit 190 on motor, at Maxton....well, I feel you just can't compare your bike to mine....it's just too slow without the juice.
Sorry, bro.
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted April 16, 2007 05:20 PM
How much money would you like to put on your assertion? It doesn't take but a click of the pc3r and 2 minutes disconnecting the nitrous to prove you wrong!
Make it worth my while bro, we don't get as many passes at Maxton as we used to. I'll do it for the right price. How about admission? 1 C note, 1 pass. I have to hit 190.000 mph or higher. I do, you pay up, I don't, I pay up and proceed with my nos runs!
Deal?
A.
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted April 16, 2007 05:23 PM
Edited By: shane661 on 16 Apr 2007 20:35
I have nothing to prove...no chip on my shoulder....my bike is already in front of yours at Maxton, on motor....
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted April 16, 2007 05:43 PM
Funny....I ran 193 at Bonneville with 208 mph gearing.....but I guess that doesn't count for anything.
A.
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