thekaz
Needs a job
spell chequer is bustimicated
Posts: 2909
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posted September 10, 2006 09:08 PM
 Edited By: thekaz on 10 Sep 2006 22:37
quote:
Okay. What is the proper way?
I know, but 95% of the people I talk to do not which is why so many electrical systems get fried.
I've PM'ed Jus the correct answer. 
Jump starting 101 ????
LOL
OK
How to start a FI bike with a vehicle
Bike IGNITION MUST BE OFF
Vehicle IGNITION MUST BE OFF
Connect car positive jumper cable to bike positive
Connect bike negative jumper cable first then connect other end to car negative
Turn bike ignition on
Try and start bike ????
If bike does not crank over check that the engine kill switch is in the "run" position
If bike still does not crank ??? Proceed at your own risk because if it didn't crank over by using just the car battery then there maybe other issues.....
Much damage can be done by trying to start a FI machine with a battery that has low voltage. The lower voltage causes the current to increase in circuits that may or may not be able to handle this increase in amperage.
If you really really have to jump the bike go for it but the best thing to do is put a GOOD charger on the battery and go drink some of your favorite beverage for a couple of hours . And by GOOD charger I mean not some piece of crap walmart special  I am a big fan of battery tenders or sure power chargers.....
I can also do instructions for jumpstarting Ford Diesels, jumpstarting chevy trucks with out setting engine codes, jumpstarting 24V transit buses with electric fork lifts or 12v trucks and even jumpstarting a BC ferries bow thruster
  
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thekaz
Needs a job
spell chequer is bustimicated
Posts: 2909
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posted September 11, 2006 08:44 AM
So did alittle reading in the manual. There are no fusable links in this ninja. Lots of fuses though.
In further reading the section about the DFI system there is a great trouble shooting guide ( 2-40 ) I would highly recommend you go through that from start to finish , top to bottom with assumption that your starting from scratch.....
There are several things that can turn the injectors and the coil sticks off so take a look at the manual....
And if you don't have and actual factory manual then RRRRRRRRRAAAAA
GET ONE
Go through the trouble shooter and keep asking questions cuase there is lots of knowledgable guys here 
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted September 11, 2006 02:26 PM
Correct. And how many people do you know that do it the wrong way?
Thats the point I was trying to make and hopefully save somebody a lot of needless heartache. Not to dwell on Jus' misfortune, we've all made mistakes of equal caliber along the way at one point or another.
____________
"BTW....You need to get a girlfriend who's last name isn't .jpg"
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jus1975
Expert Class
Posts: 402
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posted September 12, 2006 04:51 PM
No mods that interfered. Just stuff like billet parts and 300 rear tire. Things like that. I unhooked the subharness and started checking contunuity. The manual is my best friend. While checking I ran across some strange readings through the sub harness. Checking from the speed sensor end to the bulk head connections under the seat I was reading contunuity from point A to B but also from A to C, D and E. So some where in that harness something is shorted together. I am waiting on a sub harness now and hope that will do it. I hate possibly buying parts that may not be needed but so far the ones I have replaced have not checked within spec.
I have learned a valuable leason. I hate to think about the money I spent so far. But I am about to close on a new house so now that $140 for the harness is hurting alot.
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted September 12, 2006 06:00 PM
Long read meant for Jus1975
Trust me on this Jus, if it don't kill you or break you, it will make you smarter. 
Just so you don't get too down on yourself, I'm going to tell you a true story (I'll make it as short as possible) about something I did back in the day that will hopefully put a smile on your face and let you know we all screw up occasionally.
I found this large high perfomance ATV a couple years back on Ebay that looked really good, would start, rev, etc.. like a banshee but just wouldn't move. It was at a pawn shop that specializes in ATV's a couple hours away.
No forward, no reverse, nothing.
So I get there to look at it, and its only got 1,100 miles on it.
Looks damn good (for an ATV) so I buy it for $2700 figuring the V-belt is broke or at worst the centrifgal clutch is toast (rare, but what else could be wrong with an ATV that had that low of mileage and looked that good, right?). Also, it had $800 worth of new rims and tires on it. Cool!
So, I get it home and start to tear off the V-belt cover. Odd thing is six of the fifteen V-belt cover bolts are coming out waaaay to easy, two are so cross-threaded they snap off and the others are missing.
Uh-oh. Somebodies been in the kitchen and it ain't the chef.
So I start digging into the history of it and find out that it was a repo that the bank dragged out of this guys garage sans wheels and tires six months after he bought it and defaulted from day one. Thus the new wheels and tires.
The mystery continues.
So I start digging deeper and deeper into this motor to find the demon which won't let it move and low and behold I find a countershaft inside the inner cases that is wobbly where it shouldn't be. Textbook case (as I learned) of spinning the tires hard on dirt and then hitting pavement. No traction to 100% traction in 1 second.
Shit. Fuck. Pick your cuss word.
Pull the motor (God hates vertical crankcases and so do I. Work on one and you'll undertsand why) and I find the main drive gear from the crank to the driveshaft COMPLETELY sheared in two.
In addition, when the drive gear broke, it busted the rightside crankcase half all apart around the bearing area. Great. At least I still have my health.
Suzuki will only sell you BOTH halves of a crankcase because they are machined as a pair. Tab? $948.
Not going to happen. 
So, I spend $150 at my machine guy Maynards shop having him carefully weld all this shit back together on the right engine case, I clean up the engine cases, repaint them to my usual quality, and put this POS back together with the soul purpose of getting it out of my life forever.
The ATV looks fantastic. I spent several hours wet sanding/burnishing the plastic to a new gloss.
Then, as I am cleaning up the work area and getting ready to take it out for a spirited "break in or break it it" ride I see a black, obviously high quality fine pitch bolt lying right next to my tool box, but under the bottom drawer.
I was like "No, thats from another bike, not THIS one. Please God".
So I started digging back through the manual and counting and checking my parts bags and sure enough, it was one of three bolts (hidden on the inside of the left engine case) that held in the very shaft that held the gear that broke in the first place.
Guess what I got to do? Yep. Tear the whole motor down again, split the cases again, put the bolt in, spend $280 on all the gaskets again and put it all back together again.
Some guys would have just said fuck it and sold it and played ignorant, but I don't work that way.
It was a happy day when that fucker rolled out of my garage, for sure. And it was right and ran like stink, and I lost a solid $1100 not including my labor.
Moral of the story?
There are two types of wrench-heads. Those that admit they've made mistakes and those that lie.
____________
"BTW....You need to get a girlfriend who's last name isn't .jpg"
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jus1975
Expert Class
Posts: 402
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posted September 27, 2006 08:13 PM
I found some problems in the subharness. I replaced it and the bike still does not start. Check the codes and it comes back with fuel pump relay stuck on and vehicle down sensor bad. I have already replaced them. I will check them again. But I was wanting some input from some of you guys and what you think. I would like to fix this thing before the winter.
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jus1975
Expert Class
Posts: 402
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posted October 02, 2006 06:25 PM
Come on. Somebody. Dont leave me in the cold.
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dominic
Parking Attendant
Posts: 13
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posted October 02, 2006 08:15 PM
you hava pm
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dominic
Parking Attendant
Posts: 13
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posted October 02, 2006 08:18 PM
jus you have a pm
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jus1975
Expert Class
Posts: 402
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posted October 07, 2006 11:38 AM
I quess I'm all alone.
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thekaz
Needs a job
spell chequer is bustimicated
Posts: 2909
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posted October 07, 2006 04:43 PM
Edited By: thekaz on 7 Oct 2006 17:44
hey hey did realize you were still going at it
so the codes need to be cleared as you may have fixed the problem but the ECU still has the code which will make the ECU mad as hell........
And I know I have said this on this thread before but becuase there has been so much work done on this bike you really need to take a moment and re-check ALL the basics...fuses,grounds,connectors,repairs,etc.....
if you do all this and the fuel relay and down sensor codes still come up then you need to trace EVERY wire in those circuits.... and I mean every one....if it is a ground make sure it has zero resistance to ground and so on......
My friend at a dealership once had a CBR929RR that was always coming back becuase it would die while riding .....many trips in the shop later still no fix so my buddy buys it back from the customer and gives it to me over the winter.....needless to say many beers later it came down to a poorly crimped ground wire for the ignition........
keep at it but do what it takes to remain calm 
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jus1975
Expert Class
Posts: 402
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posted October 09, 2006 04:57 PM
How do you clear the codes from the ECU?
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thekaz
Needs a job
spell chequer is bustimicated
Posts: 2909
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posted October 10, 2006 12:40 PM
manual says to erase the ECU codes remove the battery ground. Doesn't say for how long but a couple of minutes should do it ....
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted October 11, 2006 10:25 AM
Edited By: VincentHill on 11 Oct 2006 12:16
WOW!! And I thought I could have un-solveable problems! I feel for you but like someone here said, sometimes you have to do the UN THinkable! "Take it SOmewhere" to get it fixed. You have already spent 1 ton of money! My guess over $1,000 and even if the Dealer ripped you off at $500 it would be cheap to get your bike running.
I hope others all learned one thing "BUY THE EXTENDED WARRANTY" Kawasaki replaced my Stator AFTER the warranty because of the oil problem earlier
At this point The thing I would suggest is CALL KAWASAKI Customer service department in Santa Anna California. Tell them that you have a 2004 ZX12R that is out of warranty but with only 2,000 miles. Then tell them that you did stupid and jump started the bike with a vehicle that was running. Then Tell them that you have replaced everything that you can think of and you want them to reccomend a dealer that "They know" has a good reputation for service within 150 to 200 miles of your house for you to take it to.
On my H-1 I bought from a Rip off Dealer and for the first problem they said it was not covered under warranty (But it was) They sent me to Crossroad Kawasaki and Bill Bloom and I have been friends ever since.
Kawasaki KNOWS who the good dealers and who are the bad one. The person I did business with for many years had now retired (I think her name was Mary Gorski) but you call and get this done!
I just remembered her name Mary Sola and I talked to her since the 1970's! She was there for about 30 Years!
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speedgene
Zone Head
Posts: 996
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posted October 17, 2006 06:48 AM
quote:
Crankcase sensor checked out not so good. But I still dont think it will cause no fuel and no spark. Haven't found anything else yet. quote]
Not so good? I hope that's good enough to start the bike up to solve this.
Sorry, I don't know the 12's system. I found out the 14 will not run without a proper signaling crank sensor. If you didn't change the crank sensor, and still have the "not so good" sensor still in the engine block, please replace with a "good known part."
Please report your findings.
____________
E-tard
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wirral_biker
Parking Attendant
Posts: 11
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posted October 17, 2006 08:55 AM
quote:
I hope others all learned one thing "BUY THE EXTENDED WARRANTY" Kawasaki replaced my Stator AFTER the warranty because of the oil problem earlier
At this point The thing I would suggest is CALL KAWASAKI Customer service department in Santa Anna California.
Thank your lucky stars you don't have to tolerate Kawasaki GB warranty dept !!!
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jus1975
Expert Class
Posts: 402
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posted January 20, 2007 06:26 AM
I know its been a while but I ran into some other issues. Like buying my first home. I decided to try to clear the codes from the ECU and they will not clear. Does anyone have any ideas why it will not clear. Is their a place that I can send it too to have it cleared of codes?
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted January 20, 2007 09:13 AM
Hey, is the bike running now? did you fix it?
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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havin it
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted January 20, 2007 12:19 PM
have you checked the kill switch connections? open the switchgear and give it a squirt of contact cleaner....do you have an alarm system fitted to the bike? if so get it tested by the alarm dealer/fitter.....could the jump start have fried the chip in the ignition key? if you have it try the master key (red one) check your owners handbook before doing this as there is some kinda specific use for the key (it might reset the ecu and/or factory fitted immobilizer) better still if you have the spare (black) key try that first....just my two pennies worth (sterling) insert smillie as required
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jus1975
Expert Class
Posts: 402
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posted January 20, 2007 12:54 PM
You gave me something to research. The bike did not start.
How can you check the kill switch? And where is the switchgear you are referring too?
I did have a Scorpio alarm system at the time but it plugs between the taillight and rear signal lights. I unhooked before trying to trouble shoot.
What do you mean by a master key?
And what chip are you talking about in the iginition key?
I don't have a immobilizer, I think those are on the cali versions.
But please tell me more. Some of what you are saying I did not think of. Knowbody has.
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted January 20, 2007 01:13 PM
where are you located?
for the kill switch take the connector loose and test continuity across the switch. make sure it goes between infinite (off) and <1 ohm (on)
ibelieve the switchgear is his way of sayingopen the kill switch up and clean the contacts.
does your ignition key have an electronic theft countermeasure on it?
  
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navpreet318
Expert Class
one crazy 12
Posts: 192
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posted January 20, 2007 07:22 PM
ok you replaced the ECU right....
if you do have a 2004 12....the one with the radial calipers...right....then is the key a very thick one....
then it has an immobilizer.....check the manual i have a 2005 12r and i have a service manual for the 2002,2003,2004 12s' and it shows that regardless of the place of sale the 2004 does have an immobilizer and you have to program the key with the ECU using a kep programmer available at kawasaki....
the 2004 model has a different ECU and i hope you're not working on it using some other years manual....
its clearly stated that if you change the key or the ECU the key will have to be reprogrammed...the tool required is the key registration unit
this is given on page 16-70
kawasaki part no. in US is 57001-1582
it also states that the ECU and ignition switch have to be replaced together.,...they have an interlink....
just my .02
maybe you can solve the problem .....best of luck....
____________
2005 ZX-12R,Arata Full Ti, PC3,Gillis
Rearsets,Muzzy Velocity Stacks,BMC
Race filters.One Crazy 12
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lonniemac
Expert Class
Posts: 225
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posted January 21, 2007 02:39 AM
the engine kill switch on the handle sounds like your problem. your fuel and ing. goes through that. take it apart and clean the contacts. it can be tested with a meter or test light. also.
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havin it
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted January 21, 2007 02:40 AM
sorry about the mumblings
two nations seperated by a common language
the switchgear i refer to is the cluster of switches on the handlebar ie: kill switch,starter button etc.
when buying a new 04 bike it comes with three keys,one red and two black,the red one is the master key and is used by the dealer to programme replacement keys.all three keys have a microchip sealed into the head,this sends a signal to an amplifier(located behind the upper left side fairing) via an antenna which is located near the ignition key slot,which communicates with the ecu.
as nav said,the key/ignition switch and the ecu are a matching pair,,if you borrowed an ecu then try borrowing the ignition switch and key from the same bike.
when you turn the ignition off the FI light will start flashing to indicate that the immobilizer is enabled.
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jus1975
Expert Class
Posts: 402
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posted January 21, 2007 05:13 PM
I will have to double check but as I remeber my bike does not have the immobolizer. And it only has 2 keys and I also had an extra made at Lowes and it worked on it. So I know that circuit does not exist on my bike. I have a manual for a 2002 and a manual for a 2004. Not alot of differences but I am using the correct manual. But I will check the switch gear and clean the contacts once it stops snowing.
And please, anything that you guys can think of, let me know.
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