swft
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posted June 05, 2002 03:58 AM
Picked these up yesterday:
Lockhart Phillips actually *gasp* had em in stock!
My thoughts regarding these:
1. They aren't solid enuff! C'mon, they bolt to that weenie lil bracket on the side of the motor! But then again, these are *exactly* the same ones that are sold for the ZX6R Necromancer has run for two years, and they've worked through some *horrendous* crashes!
2. I helped take a RC51 apart that had sliders that bolted directly to the motor. After a lowside at Daytona, Mike Sullivan (AMA #74) took off on the bike again and after getting up on the high bank, the motor went *kachunk*. So he pulled in the clutch and got off the track. Postmortem: The lowside was enough of an impact to crack the engine case IN HALF!!! Seems that the design never called for a side load like that to be placed onnit! Now I don't think that'd be a problem with the 12, but given my choice, I'd rather replace the bracket than the cylinder block. 
  
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BlackMandingoWarrior
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posted June 05, 2002 05:50 AM
Man, Those Things Are Huge!!!
I've always considered mounting sliders on those fairing mounting brackets but my concern is the strength and length of the screw used to mount everything. I would think that a new fairing mounting bracket would be designed to accept a beefier fastener to mount the sliders. I would also think the sliders could then be designed to eliminate the rubber grommet used to hold the fairing in place.
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swft
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posted June 05, 2002 06:06 AM
A while ago I posted much the same idea. I *would* prefer a beefier mount, but my experience says that it's not entirely necessary.
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BlackMandingoWarrior
Expert Class
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posted June 05, 2002 07:01 AM
What About the Screw??
Seems to me if the same screw used to secure the fairing is used to secure the slider, it will snap off with little effort (that's a pretty small screw), especially since the slider is so long. After that you're grinding away the fairing!?!? How much were those??
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zxguy2
Parking Attendant
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posted June 05, 2002 09:45 AM
as long as they protect it from a 0 mph fallover I'm happy
that's what keeps happening to me.. dammit
plus they might look cool
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MikeM
Novice Class
Posts: 49
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posted June 07, 2002 11:40 AM
Slider mounting on 12
Guys, your thoughts on using the engine as a stressed mount for sliders agreed with all the R+D I've done and went against all my engineering experience. I work as a consultant engineer in the railway industry in the UK.
Our sliders are going to use machined aluminium mounting plates using a through frame braced mount with nylon sliders. They will be black anodised and use black nylon to match the 12's looks as closely as posiible.
The only thing that concerns me is you seem to want your cake and eat it, for a slider to protect the frame and engine it will have to project out from the bike some way, it's your choice if you don't want to lose some of the bikes' looks but don't complain when you throw it down the road and have lots of damage that could have been prevented!!
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BlackMandingoWarrior
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posted June 07, 2002 05:34 PM
Hey Mike....
Do you have a drawing of the device and mounting location??? I'm having a little trouble visualizing!?!?
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MikeM
Novice Class
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posted June 07, 2002 11:40 PM
Drawings...no way!!!
Dude, if I show drawings before copywright is registered I'm out of business!!!!!
Will be able to do better than drawings in aprox. 10 days with photos of kit, kit mounted on bike and bike on its' side to show effecctivness.
10 days and counting.
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BlackMandingoWarrior
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posted June 08, 2002 06:07 AM
Doesn't Get Better Than That!!
Thanks!!
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Ballisticzx12r
Zone Head
& Deals Gap Board Member
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posted June 12, 2002 08:31 PM
Keep Me posted
I havetrack day at Road America I would a set prior.
Deadline to to the States... July 25, 2002.
Bart
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Zhooligan
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posted June 12, 2002 09:05 PM
Keep us posted mike. I am really interested in the results. My HRC kitted, MVR built and set-up RC51 (well over a hundred K invested) was killed at Daytona because of the sliders. The RC51 sliders mount to the engine bolts that attach to the front cyclinder. My Rider crashed twice in practice and qualifying. Damage appeared to be minimal.
With just a few minutes of final practice left a couple hours prior to the start of the race, running 180 down the back stretch the bike started vibrating. My rider shut the engine down, pulled in the clutch and brought it to a stop. It appeard that we either broke a crank or pitched a rod.
Upon returning from Daytona we pulled the engine to find that the crash protectors had protected the frame and other components, but the side load / impact litterally sheared or cracked the forward cylinder off!! The block was toast and absolutely nothing else was damaged! It did not so much as score the cyclinder! The frame slider saved a couple thousand dollars worth of body work and misc. stuff at the cost or at least could have cost my rider his life and totaled a hundred thousand dollar piece of equipment!
Needless to say I question the side loading of the engine.
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Ballisticzx12r
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posted June 18, 2002 02:52 PM
Any Update
I would like a set of sliders also have a track day scheduled for July 30-31 at Road America. Although I hope to never test them I would like a set prior to the day if possible.
Thanks,
Bart
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MikeM
Novice Class
Posts: 49
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posted June 20, 2002 11:47 AM
Latest, latest update!
Have got the quote from the machine shop for the production versions, am working on simplifying the design slightly to reduce the cost.
Will keep you all updated.
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big12
Novice Class
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posted June 21, 2002 06:04 AM
Definitley need a set. Keep up the good work.
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beansbaxter
Needs a life
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posted August 09, 2002 10:12 PM
So does anyone have any frame sliders at all??? I cant find any.
Everyone is not saying the LP ones are any good, so are they just not worth getting?
For my 02, will I have to cut anything, or are they bolt-on?
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vozizm
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posted September 04, 2002 09:32 AM
any updates on frame sliders???/
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
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posted September 04, 2002 02:38 PM
i actually ran into a guy at sportbikewest on an identical 12 (silver 00 model) who user 9r sliders. attached them to the primary fairing mount point on each side. of course it's not a super strong mount point, but it's worked well for him in a couple minor tip overs (never a real crash tho i think). got me to thinking tho. the rather lightweight brackets at those points could work as crumple zones. there was something mentioned (in this thread i think) about sliders attached to the engine raiding the possibility of cracking the block. assumably attaching them to the frame could damage the frame in a hard impact too. so maybe a little crushable bracket is just what's called for. strong enough to not get destroyed in a simple tipover, but weak enough to take the brunt of the impact in a real crash. replace a coupla $10 brackets & ur good as new. even kept the winglets from damage in the tip overs he's had.
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beansbaxter
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posted September 04, 2002 04:41 PM
Did he use the 9R sliders that LP offers?
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vozizm
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posted September 04, 2002 05:31 PM
what year 9.. i had some on my 00' 9r that i got from www.kneedraggers.com made by intuitive.{spelling suxs}.. hope someone could show pic if avail?
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swft
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posted September 04, 2002 05:50 PM
Those are the same sliders, work for the 6,9,12. I posted pics of them awhile ago. See my post above on 5 June.
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vozizm
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posted September 04, 2002 05:56 PM
SWFT;... Those are different than the ones i had... mine on 00 9r were more like a mushroom shaped thingy
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
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posted September 04, 2002 11:19 PM
yeah the ones i saw also had more of a mushroom head. i'm sure they were shorter overall too. but those would prolyl work better cause of the extra length. mind u, the shorter ones should be less likely to bend. eh, either will do the job methinks. better n letting the winglet act as a slider every damn time.
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swft
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posted September 05, 2002 09:31 AM
Ah! My bad. These were cheap, and *gasp* available. :0
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MikeM
Novice Class
Posts: 49
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posted September 07, 2002 03:59 AM
The problems with the frame sliders is, for my design at least, now in a vicious circle. There is a mounting point available which will not overstress the frame or engine cases but... because this point is so far from where the sliders need to be to actually be of any worth, the length of the mounting bracket is producing a significant amount of leverage on the mounting position/bolt. I'm not 100%, being honest not even 50%, convinced that what I originally thought of as a workable design will actually perform as it should. I don't have the ability, or money, to carry out any meaningful testing so everything has to be over engineered.
Thinking around the problem, there is a comapny in the UK called engine armour who make c/f case covers for the 12 and they say that they can be made up to 12mm thick. Even if the slider design comes to nothing these might be a way of minimising damage if/when the bike goes over.
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
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posted September 07, 2002 10:09 AM
well, what about the idea of using a crushible mount for the slider? then u could attache it straght to the engine or frame but not worry so much about damage to said components. as i mentioend earlier, the fairing bracket works in this way, but the bracket is too tall, so once it has crashed, the slider would be so far down that the bodywork & case woudl be draggin un their their full weight, laregly negating the benefit of the sliders. but if a purpose built crushable mount were made with more strength, particularly lateral strength, that may be the answer. it could actually be a very strong mount, just have to crush a bit before the forces get high enough to damage the engine or frame.
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