2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted June 21, 2008 06:02 PM
 Edited By: 2000redrocket on 21 Jun 2008 19:19
here is a image of the afr last night
105/100 seems to increase valve overlap i am thinking plus 105 being later. looks like good top end stuff. my smaller bike i am going to mark what it is now then probaly 105/105,105/103,102/105. i am looking to get rid of some of the overscavenging with the big pipe and shifting to more bottomend. though it would be eaiser to extend it and come out with more motor but it still has to pull to 11500 before the shift to second.
it is fun to talk about this spectulation. a nother to pull the engine to do it.i am needing a chain in the near future. looks like a excuse for longer chain and extencions.
i just used the copy function ridge told me about. i now have the density map from a on b. but i did not copy the a-n map to see if what the stock rich map does compaired to the tuned map a. next week will continue the ongoing saga.friday night same bat station.
  
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted June 21, 2008 07:12 PM
quote:
Hello all. Don;t know much about bikes but use a ZX 12R engine in my dwarf race car. I'm looking for a new ECU and have no clue what I'm looking for. mine is a 2000 Denso #21175-1069. was reading in one of the post on here about them possibly using the same ECU in some Subarus. If this is true, Does anyone know what make and model. O yeah and the year would help lol. thanks Chris. I can be emialed directly @ Beattie411@charter.net or @ 1-802-734-7035. thanks again
I think what you read was the same CPU inside the ECU is used by the Subaru not the same ECU. In other words you can not put a Subaru ECU in a ZX-12
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted June 22, 2008 08:04 AM
so rethinkingtheoverlapthing advancing theintakewouldbringitintothe backside of the exhaust cycle sooner. so advancing exhaust same as intake to keep it the same or more to make it less.
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted June 29, 2008 09:19 AM
so last week i put the kleen back on to test why my mph is down. it is the only thing different since it had great mph and then it went away.
after that i tested it and it was extreemly rich down twards idle. i almost walked back. the only thing not to speck was the tps at the area i had the idle set to was higher than 1.08vdc . so while messing around with it i could effect the idle a little bit.it does not use the map that has tps and rpm for idle unless the equation for the end result got changed with so much tps voltage. it started to work then and i did nothing. so thinking about the way it seems to work (meaning i could be wrong) i should be able to move the tps like i was and unless i move it quick it chould not do much. i think i am going to unplug it while running. and if the manifold vacume sencor had issues it would act way rich down low like it was.
with the kleen back on i can not realy adjust fuel and know what i am doing cause all that air masks the afr. the end of the week i will find out the 1/4 mile dyno on the kleen thing effecting my mph.
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted July 26, 2008 08:34 PM
after replacing the map sensor and rideing the bike again i noticed it was running 12.4 to 1 at driving rpms i use here a lot 3000 to 4000. so i looked into my logger and came up with 50 cmhgish sometimes lower sometimes higher (i am only talking +/- say 3 to 5 cmhg.
i am running 77.something i think 77.6 or so engine off. so for me- 50cmhg on logger as ridge figured out should be around -27cmhg on enginuity density colum. well for a while it seems like you say it is point to this colum but it seems like the one to the right of my pointer. well it happened again pointing to the-25 colum and the .22 looked higher 3200 to 3800. so i dropped them -4 and i am done i would say. it did what i needed it to do. now around 13.1 to 13.3 to 1.
the revlimit is great. i upped mine 300. funny thing is on tshults' bike i forgot and plowed into the stock limiter in first.
his bike feels like it has more lowend than mine. i wish i would of gotten a better than 1.88 60ft and not banged the limiter in first. still got a 10.09.
as far as tweeking is conserned i think i am mostly done. anyone wanting my map pm me. it will only work for 2000 ecu. with muzzy pipe. i am someday thinking i want to give it to tshults and see what it does to his bike with hindle on.
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andrewt1971
Parking Attendant
Posts: 3
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posted July 29, 2008 12:57 AM
Hi,
I stumbled across this thread some time ago whilst looking for tuning information for a friends zx12r powered race car. After some discussion with his dyno man he decided he'd like to give this ecu tuning ago, however despite being asked to check the serial number before ordering a BDM cable etc he didn't and the ecu he has is for a 2002 UK bike and no enginuity definition file exists for this (IIRC the serial number is 21175-1087) Has anybody ever tried or is it even possible to put the map from say a 1089 US ecu into a 1087 UK ecu?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted July 29, 2008 06:28 PM
I know the 1065 EU is exactly the same as the 1069 US except for some very minor map values.
Since you have the BDM cable already then just download the three flash modules and send them to me and I'll be more than happy to write you a definition file for the 1087.
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andrewt1971
Parking Attendant
Posts: 3
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posted July 30, 2008 12:41 AM
Thanks ridgeracer.
Three flash modules? That's the control block, the map data and what? I've read the instructions a dozen times and only see these two.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted July 30, 2008 08:10 AM
The CPU in fact has three 32k flash modules, each with its own control block, for a total of 96K. All the map data is in the first one. The other two contain the actual software that makes the ECU run. For the purposes of remapping the ECU you only need to work with the map data one. In order to write a definition however I need the software sections so I can disassemble them and read which maps are which.
To upload the map data with Prog16z you select CM Choose Module 9r3_32k1.16P then select UM upload module. Just repeat this two more times using 9r3_32k2.16P and 9r3_32k3.16P. Be sure to designate somewhere in the file name you save it to which is which like 1087k1.s19, 1087k2.s19, etc
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andrewt1971
Parking Attendant
Posts: 3
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posted July 30, 2008 11:55 AM
I've got the three files, what email address shall i send them to.
Thanks again.
Andy.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted July 30, 2008 02:00 PM
quote:
I've got the three files, what email address shall i send them to.
Thanks again.
Andy.
Check your PM
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted August 09, 2008 05:52 PM
Edited By: 2000redrocket on 9 Aug 2008 18:53
with the narrowing down better to lean out the bike more i checked the milage and went 162 on speedo but an 16/44 i came up with 7% off and that makes the real milage traveled around 150 or 151 and i put in 3.8 got 39 ish mpg almost 40. i then tuned it a bit more in some places (running 14.5 2900 to 2400) and rich trail throttle in the -26 colum. now i have areas in the lower vacume that it is only 2 or 4 cm different. and it is going to be hard to hit all the places. i am basicly done. for driveing around it is good enough i need to look for trouble. and i will take a 3 mpg improvement over before when i could not get the driveing area. now i need to put the logger on a .4 scan and go on a longer ride to all the hills i know of. that is the only way to get it to a lower vacume area with out having it go to the a-n map.
i am happy.....
when i get time i will put a chart on my face book page and post the chart at my lean area.
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ninja_12r2000
Novice Class
Posts: 82
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posted August 18, 2008 08:36 PM
I don't know why i can't see any picture of that thread. I can't save the target or show picture (doesn't work at all).
Nice to see pics on this particular thread.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted August 20, 2008 03:58 PM
quote:
Housekeeping item....
So I won't be accused of trying to wreck this thread, again, I am giving everyone timely notice that sometime after Xmas but before New Years all my image and pdf links hosted on olympus.net in this thread will go dark. The amount of content and the number of views between this site, my site and other sites are exceeding my limits at my humble little local ISP.
I have moved all my content to another site for hosting that also should be much faster. Unfortunately because of site policy we are not allowed to go back and update our threads so I can't just update the links myself. The admins can either copy the material and host it themselves or go through the thread and update the links. Either way its out of my hands.
A list of the updated links can be found here:
http://www.bikeland.info/images/bikeland/23797/threadlinklist.txt
Given that fewer people are viewing it these days I went back and restored as many of the original images that I could that I was hosting. The rest can be found in the link above.
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Thanos
Parking Attendant
Posts: 3
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posted September 18, 2008 11:24 PM
Edited By: Thanos on 19 Sep 2008 07:26
9.732 with stock zx12 and vp fuel
[URL=http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=john97400mfd4.jpg] [/URL]
http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=john97400mfd4.jpg
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Hells Dark Lord
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted September 21, 2008 09:40 AM
RR.....I have a stock 01. I am contemplating putting a Muzzy 1317 kit in it. Will I get any advantage out of having you hack my ECU for this bike if I put the kit in it? I am guessing that the top speed limiter would be the main advantage. I am also guessing that a 1317 kit wont rev as high as a stocker and that raising the rev limit would PROBABLY not be a huge advantage if at all. Thoughts?
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted September 21, 2008 06:03 PM
I can certianly remove your top speed limit and or change your rev limits but as to what would be the best limits for that setup I'm not really the guy to ask. As I've said many times I'm just a lowly engineer, not a tuner.
Truth is the majority of ZX-12 reflashes I've done have been for mini sprint race cars who all use stock displacements.
I'd be curious to hear what Entropy has to say on the subject. I set him up to reflash his ECU a long time ago and never heard back if he ever did anything with it.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted September 21, 2008 06:09 PM
a 1317 will rev as high. its just a bigger bore. its strokers that cant rev as high, but a stoked 12 is still not as much as a busa. so it doesnt really matter. Karl has revved his 1427 to 12500 with no issues.
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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JACKSHOW
Novice Class
Posts: 44
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posted September 22, 2008 11:03 AM
quote:
a 1317 will rev as high. its just a bigger bore. its strokers that cant rev as high, but a stoked 12 is still not as much as a busa. so it doesnt really matter. Karl has revved his 1427 to 12500 with no issues.
A big bore will rev as high, trust me!
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TireKiller
Parking Attendant
Posts: 20
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posted September 24, 2008 11:49 AM
Hey RR.. I'm interested in doing the dirty with my ECU, its an 02, I'll lookup the ECU code later today to see which one it is.. I have alotta EXP with enguinuity since I tune cars for a living so I'd be glad to help out in any way I can testing stuff for your ECU mods (getting a bike dyno within the month).. I guess I need to order the BDL? cable from you and the connector, how do I go about gettint that from you?? I saw a link in the threads somewhere but now I can't find it when I need it lol.
Thanks
Chris
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Hells Dark Lord
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted September 25, 2008 12:17 PM
quote:
I can certianly remove your top speed limit and or change your rev limits but as to what would be the best limits for that setup I'm not really the guy to ask. As I've said many times I'm just a lowly engineer, not a tuner.
Truth is the majority of ZX-12 reflashes I've done have been for mini sprint race cars who all use stock displacements.
I'd be curious to hear what Entropy has to say on the subject. I set him up to reflash his ECU a long time ago and never heard back if he ever did anything with it.
so Karl, whats the skinny on this?
Anyone else have some input????
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted September 27, 2008 08:24 AM
Edited By: RidgeRacer on 27 Sep 2008 16:27
quote:
Hey RR.. I'm interested in doing the dirty with my ECU, its an 02, I'll lookup the ECU code later today to see which one it is.. I have alotta EXP with enguinuity since I tune cars for a living so I'd be glad to help out in any way I can testing stuff for your ECU mods (getting a bike dyno within the month).. I guess I need to order the BDL? cable from you and the connector, how do I go about gettint that from you?? I saw a link in the threads somewhere but now I can't find it when I need it lol.
Thanks
Chris
bikeland.info
You can order the cables there or you can follow the Do It Yourself Link to my ECU hacking site where you can find the files to download, instructions, and diagrams on exactly where and how to open up your ECU
http://www.bikeland.info/downloads/ecu/ECU_BDM_SLOT_001.pdf
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TireKiller
Parking Attendant
Posts: 20
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posted September 29, 2008 05:22 PM
Cool thanks..
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TireKiller
Parking Attendant
Posts: 20
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posted October 02, 2008 09:13 AM
Hey Ridge..
Is there any data coming off the serial out of the ECU?? LIke mabey somthing we can use to log into enginuity? Mabey of the standard data port even?? If you could figure out how to get even basic logging info like RPM TPS and Load that would greatly improve the ability to tune with the stock ECU. That on top of enginuities built in support for the LM1, you could get really get the bike dialed in.. Lemme know if you have some ideas, I can help in testing, I already do testing and debugging of some other tuning software..
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RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted October 16, 2008 01:41 PM
The Denso software supports complete telemetry. It can provide any of the variables from RPM, TPS, all the air temp sensors, ignition advance and dwell, injector duration etc. People are already accessing this info on the Busa using a $20 USB cable.
Also some one was working on a patch so the Busa can 'speak' inovonics and be installed as the initial device in an inovonics logger data chain.
The ZX-12 has the same telemetry routines in the software I just have not bothered to try it out and see which pin on the wire harness it is connected to.
Last I remember just off the top of my head I thought it wouldn't work because there was a serial out but no serial in circuits. But it turns out on the Busa they are using a single line as bi-directional, half duplex serial so maybe it would be worth looking at the ZX-12 again. I just don't know how many people would be interested .
Here are the variables in the telemetry look up table that I've identified so far...
quote:
seg000:00017800 Serial B command look up table.
seg000:00017800
seg000:00017800 Table holds 16 bit addr of byte to xmit
seg000:00017800 Commands < 0xE0 are in RAM segment (add 0x000E0000)
seg000:00017800 else from map memory (add 0x00010000)
seg000:00017800
seg000:00017800
seg000:00017800 RAM_table: dc.w 0 ; System Status flag
seg000:00017802 dc.w 0Ch ; System Status Flags
seg000:00017804 dc.w 46h ; Throttle Position
seg000:00017806 dc.w 4Ch ; Inlet Air Pressure
seg000:00017808 dc.w 7Ah ; zAdjLiqTemp; Adjusted water temp
seg000:0001780A dc.w 7Bh ; zAdjAirTemp; Adjusted Air Temperature
seg000:0001780C dc.w 52h ; zStaticAP_2; copy of static air pressure
seg000:0001780E dc.w 7Ch ; zCnkSpeed; RPM
seg000:00017810 dc.w 57h ; zCopyAnRslt_4; Fuel Pump Voltage
seg000:00017812 dc.w null ; Returns 0xFF always
seg000:00017814 dc.w null
seg000:00017816 dc.w null
seg000:00017818 dc.w null
seg000:0001781A dc.w null
seg000:0001781C dc.w null
seg000:0001781E dc.w null
seg000:00017820 dc.w 0CCh ; zInjVar_A2; This is zCOV_offset_1 (Fuel Adjustment Input 1)
seg000:00017822 dc.w 0CDh ; low byte of above
seg000:00017824 dc.w 0D4h ; zCov_offset + zFuelPumpMap (Injector variable)
seg000:00017826 dc.w 0D5h ; low byte of above
seg000:00017828 dc.w 0DCh
seg000:0001782A dc.w 0DDh
seg000:0001782C dc.w 0E4h
seg000:0001782E dc.w 0E5h
seg000:00017830 dc.w 0ECh ; Calculated zCOV offset to Injector for Cylinder 1
seg000:00017832 dc.w 0EDh ; Calculated zCOV offset to Injector for Cylinder 2
seg000:00017834 dc.w 0EEh ; Calculated zCOV offset to Injector for Cylinder 3
seg000:00017836 dc.w 0EFh ; Calculated zCOV offset to Injector for Cylinder 4
seg000:00017838 dc.w null
seg000:0001783A dc.w null
seg000:0001783C dc.w null
seg000:0001783E dc.w null
seg000:00017840 dc.w 220h ; Calculated Ignition Advance Coil 1
seg000:00017842 dc.w 224h ; Calculated Ignition Advance Coil 2
seg000:00017844 dc.w 228h ; Calculated Ignition Advance Coil 3
seg000:00017846 dc.w 22Ch ; Calculated Ignition Advance Coil 4
seg000:00017848 dc.w 36Fh ; zCnkSpeed_2; RPM
seg000:0001784A dc.w null
seg000:0001784C dc.w null
seg000:0001784E dc.w null
seg000:00017850 dc.w null
seg000:00017852 dc.w null
seg000:00017854 dc.w null
seg000:00017856 dc.w null
seg000:00017858 dc.w null
seg000:0001785A dc.w null
seg000:0001785C dc.w null
seg000:0001785E dc.w null
seg000:00017860 dc.w null
seg000:00017862 dc.w null
seg000:00017864 dc.w null
seg000:00017866 dc.w null
seg000:00017868 dc.w null
seg000:0001786A dc.w null
seg000:0001786C dc.w null
seg000:0001786E dc.w null
seg000:00017870 dc.w null
seg000:00017872 dc.w null
seg000:00017874 dc.w null
seg000:00017876 dc.w null
seg000:00017878 dc.w null
seg000:0001787A dc.w null
seg000:0001787C dc.w null
seg000:0001787E dc.w null
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