2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted May 13, 2008 05:22 PM
kz:
it has the ti muzzy and a muzzy advancer at 2.5 advance. that is it. i have good mph total package 690 to 700lb last pass friday night 150.22 i am going to assume the clutch was not slipping that pass but it was all over mph wise that night. best pass that night was 1.68 60 9.75 that night about 146mph best mph run 9.81 150.22mph 1.71 60ft.
i had a predictable time tuneing the rocket with this mod. i first adjusted the speed density map getting it to lean out while just driveing around. real rich in the lower vaume 1900 to 2600 rpms area. that is why it falls on its face down low. when jerking the throttle at the 2000 area to say half it goes 11.0 to 1 and hesitates. i am going after this next. anyone want this map i developed so far let ridge know or i and u can try it.
  
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted May 24, 2008 07:00 PM
 Edited By: 2000redrocket on 24 May 2008 20:26
i am still working on the density tweeks. at the track i grabbed the throttle probaly about 50% and it went 11 to 1. question is was it all density which i leaned that area out or did it go a - n map with the quick 1/2 throttle jerk open. it seems like that cause there are bigger numbers in that area. this happened 1800 to 2600 in the "zone" puting up the return road.
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted May 25, 2008 04:58 AM
today i want to remove the kleen stuff from the valve cover and install t new frictions to get rid of the thin frictions. i think the kleen is masking the afr readings down low. it reads real lean but it should not run correctly with say 17 to 1 i think. doug if u see this will something run correctly at 17 to 1 and accelerate pulling out? i think it is reversion ot the emitions putting fresh air in the exhaust.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted May 25, 2008 11:16 AM
17:1 "should" melt it! you need a set of block offs. or just plug the stock ones that has to be whats going on...
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted May 29, 2008 05:40 PM
i disabled the kleen system on the bike to finish tweeking the speed density map. i knew it would richen up some but i am starting over it is that different. the real rich muzzy area is back but only when i accelerate slowly. the inlet vacume sensor is showing -5 to -15 cmhg at the real messed up area 2000 to 2600 rpm. the afr was getting masked big time in lower rpm areas from the air getting placed in the exhaust.
now the fun begins again.
question is why do you guys think it richens up the bike like that. overlap of cam and scavenging seems to be effected and it being injected to means the cylinders are getting less fuel to go 11.0 to 1
ridge did you flash the junk ecu and count how many times it worked till failure yet?
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted May 31, 2008 06:50 AM
Edited By: ridgeracer on 31 May 2008 07:51
quote:
...but the drag racer that got a 9.9 in (pretty much) the 1/4, was it stock wheelbase? airshifted? other mods besides the arkopovic pipe?
The guy from Greece sent me some pictures.
Currently he is doing a zx-12r with weisco pistons that will be running 13.5:1 compression with a muzzy full titanium that he is tuning exclusively with the stock ECU, no power commander. He said he would send me some dyno charts when he is done.
I was thinking this guy is making pretty fast progress. Then I checked out the domain his emails are coming out of.
http://gt-innovation.gr
Apparently he is no novice when it comes to ECU tuning.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted May 31, 2008 07:01 AM
quote:
...ridge did you flash the junk ecu and count how many times it worked till failure yet?
No I haven't. But I heard from a guy who heard from a guy that someone had flashed their car ECU that uses the same chip over a 1000 times....for whatever that is worth. 
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 31, 2008 09:52 AM
can't we hook up some sort of variable valve timing from a concourse...?
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted June 06, 2008 06:21 AM
quote:
can't we hook up some sort of variable valve timing from a concourse...?
Lord knows I'm all for thinking outside the box but when your idea of outside the box is outside the box then it may be a little to far outside for me.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted June 06, 2008 06:30 AM
Edited By: ridgeracer on 6 Jun 2008 08:09
I heard from my Greek friend again. He sent me a dyno plot of a zx-12r with Wiesco 13.5:1 pistons and a full muzzy Ti exhaust.
dyno plot
I'm no dyno expert and I'm never seen one from a Fuchs dyno. I'm not sure which trace is actually measured and which is calculated. Don't have any pre-mod baseline to compare it to either...but he is excited about the increase.
How does it look to you guys?
The point is however all the tuning was done by reflashing the stock ECU. No PCIII, etc.
Next they are going to put cams in it.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted June 06, 2008 08:46 PM
damn looks good... smooth power band and torque.
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted June 09, 2008 03:15 PM
so today i tried to pinpoint the cmhg numbers by making the 18.xxx cmgh colum 20 numbers richer. on the b map. yea it did not do anything. i am pissed. now what?i tried to make sure the bike was on the a map and b map by rideing it and i hate to say it but nothing changed real much. it is not horrably rich 2000 to 2600 on the untouched b map. i am miffed. i may try to add fuel for my lean spot on the an map and see what happens since i am getting noware. this is the first time i am frustrated.
i am going to try to compair maps with the verify function in the prog z. RIDGE can i do that? select my map and hit compair module?to make sure my map i just loaded is in?
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Thanos
Parking Attendant
Posts: 3
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posted June 10, 2008 12:06 AM
Edited By: Thanos on 10 Jun 2008 01:09
Ve and afr
quote:
so today i tried to pinpoint the cmhg numbers by making the 18.xxx cmgh colum 20 numbers richer. on the b map. yea it did not do anything. i am pissed. now what?i tried to make sure the bike was on the a map and b map by rideing it and i hate to say it but nothing changed real much. it is not horrably rich 2000 to 2600 on the untouched b map. i am miffed. i may try to add fuel for my lean spot on the an map and see what happens since i am getting noware. this is the first time i am frustrated.
i am going to try to compair maps with the verify function in the prog z. RIDGE can i do that? select my map and hit compair module?to make sure my map i just loaded is in?
Have you changed both VE and Target Afr?I can confirm that B maps work because i have changed spark advance and fuel maps and got a lot of gain as you can see on dynochart.
What is the setup of your bike?I think that the problem in high rpms is the stock pump.In one of my test bikes we have added cams and it seems that in high rpms afr can not get any richer by just keeping the injectors dc high.
In the prog16z you can do a Vm (verify module) and see if the checksum is the same with the file you wrote inside.
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted June 11, 2008 12:12 PM
i always modify map a then i can switch to b by unplugginh the plug with the wires together. in the ve map (which ridge says is speed density ) i have made good progress but now i am in the nitpick mode and it is kicking my but. i went to the ¨ve¨ map and made the -18.x colum to 4200 up 20 numbers figuring i would roll in the throttle a bit dumping vacume andhaving it go real rich . well it did not work. now i need to try to see if that is also why i can not add fuel wherer i know i need to and ritchen it up a little. i am going to tinker with it a little today.
i also dynotuned my bike using the prog z and it worked great. now i want torque. i may advance my cams a little to get more mid range and low end. i would like to see 119mph in the 1/4.
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted June 11, 2008 02:30 PM
i got it.
i took the 22 cmhg and went +50 boy did i find it. when my analog input is around 53 to 55 cmhg the bike ran like poop. and would not realy idle cause i remember it idles close like 18 to 22 cmhg. so i found it . so i added fuel to the a-n area where it is lean since i have been adding fuel to the density map and not really efecting much. i am going for a ride now.
i am going to be on my tuned a map cause the +50 on the b map will not let me ride it i am betting.
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted June 11, 2008 05:34 PM
well i figured out that running the bike on map a and shutting it off unplugging the plug to make it run on map b and starting it is not enough time for whatever to bleed down or something else cause it will not switch from a to b map. get into the shop unplug it take off helmet and gloves and setup laptop and start it on the phat map b . do it quick will not work for me. i am glad i know this now.
i made the lean spot better in the 3000 area when pulling throttle. i am just going to have to add more fuel. i am doing it also in the a-n map cause i think it uses some of them numbers when you grap throttle.
i'm getting there.
i want to mess with pinpointing what cmhg colum it uses for my numbers on my logger some more.
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Thanos
Parking Attendant
Posts: 3
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posted June 12, 2008 03:17 AM
quote:
well i figured out that running the bike on map a and shutting it off unplugging the plug to make it run on map b and starting it is not enough time for whatever to bleed down or something else cause it will not switch from a to b map. get into the shop unplug it take off helmet and gloves and setup laptop and start it on the phat map b . do it quick will not work for me. i am glad i know this now.
i made the lean spot better in the 3000 area when pulling throttle. i am just going to have to add more fuel. i am doing it also in the a-n map cause i think it uses some of them numbers when you grap throttle.
i'm getting there.
i want to mess with pinpointing what cmhg colum it uses for my numbers on my logger some more.
As a i hint i would tell you that changes are not so accurate as you think.There are other algorithms too that do calculations before the final outcome. ecu is always trying to reach the desired afr but don`t forget that injectors and pump will not always do as you need.
Tell me about your bikes setup.
Also do the tests only in the b maps and not in a.I have also seen that when i made my tests here.If you unplug and plug the ecu right after switching then it will do it faster.
I would be happy to help you with the maps since i made a lot of tests here.You can contact me on msn or by email.
Also i would like to thank RR and petrik for their grate work.
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted June 15, 2008 06:36 PM
so the going stupid rich helped me. i know now almost for sure on my loger with 1.0vdc 10cmhg 4.2vdc 90cmhg (i may be off a bit it is setup like the troubleshooting in the manual graph for vdc vs cmhg)
75cmhg for me is 0cmhg on the enginuity chart 70 is -5 cmhg 65 is -10 cmhg and at rest it does sit dam near 75cmhg (75.25 or so)
i am able to target things better now since i richened up cirtain areas to watch it go stupid rich to say yeah i did this now i see this.
i have a -10 to -18 or so rich area. i will take it out and i am happy.
i plan to degree cams and put them to a lower number to advance the cams for more et at the track. i need to get more done in first gear.
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted June 16, 2008 03:16 PM
i rode it today doing little changes and am sure i got it pinpointed close.
i made small tweek in the 4000 driving range where it would go rich pulling a bit of throttle.
i now have to pull a hill for it to go rich
i am still messing with the low rpm fuel say 2000 to 2600. i can get it to go to 11.0 to 1 pulling a hill yet in a tall gear.
i am going to go to the same hill same rpms next time to see what 3 numbers leaner does.
what do you guys think about me advancing my cams say 2 to 3 deg to get rid of the soft bottom end?
my bike stock dynowed 162 with muzzy same dyno 186. if i swing the cams advanced say 2 to 3 deg it will make the bottom end better and i can give up some on top for more mid out of it. i am looking for 2 mph gain in the 1/8. i figure i am giving up et to the 330 cause after that i pull second and am on topend. i think that drive the longer stroke bikes have to the 330 is it. my zx11 dan did from action machine in NJ. had the cams at 99/100 and it ran great. best was 10.21 @ 139 1.72 60ft no strap. and only dynoed on the average dyno 134ish (daytone 138) it never gave great dyno numbers but the mph at the track was ok.
if i degree it i am going to index the slots and mark where cirtain numbers are. then the hard work is done and just valve cover removal.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted June 19, 2008 11:51 AM
102 or 103 on intake
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PDLontheRIGHT
Parking Attendant
Posts: 1
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posted June 19, 2008 12:41 PM
Hello all. Don;t know much about bikes but use a ZX 12R engine in my dwarf race car. I'm looking for a new ECU and have no clue what I'm looking for. mine is a 2000 Denso #21175-1069. was reading in one of the post on here about them possibly using the same ECU in some Subarus. If this is true, Does anyone know what make and model. O yeah and the year would help lol. thanks Chris. I can be emialed directly @ Beattie411@charter.net or @ 1-802-734-7035. thanks again
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Racing is about Finding the EDGE, Are U there yet.
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted June 19, 2008 06:17 PM
mr supra what are the stock ones at? i will degree both before i move them. 102 103 intake and not move the exhaust? won't that increast my overlap for a netagive effect on low end with out moveing the exhaust or do i have it backwards?
pdl look on ebay for a 2000 ecu. eventually you will find one.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted June 20, 2008 05:53 AM
well they could be anywhere! Y2k has done a lot of work on cam timing..
Factory recomends 104/102
Muzzys 105/103 or 105/100
Shifter Kart Racing 105/107
for what your talking about more low and midrange go with 102 or 103 on the intake cam...
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted June 21, 2008 07:43 AM
My 1270 w/ 14:1 CR makes 100 ft. lbs. by 4,000 rpm and climbs to 111.5 at 7,600 rpm.
Cams are 105 in / 99.9 (100) ex.
Is that the bottom end you are looking for?!?
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted June 21, 2008 10:34 AM
better watch ptv with smaller numbers!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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