PetriK
Parking Attendant
Posts: 30
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posted February 08, 2008 09:22 AM
quote:
added too much fuel. actually started and ran with out stopping when cold. usually i have to re start it a couple of times. but driveing around 2100 was too rich. i could hear it warming up. i learned something. (and got to ride)
Maybe time to hook up lambda into the exhaust ? Even WBO is always recommended narrow band lambda will give good indicative (even though not definitive) AFR figures.
  
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted February 09, 2008 06:44 AM
 Edited By: 2000redrocket on 9 Feb 2008 06:45
i agree that a wide band or narrow band sensor will let me know. but i know it is lean in the muzzy bigger pipe induced dead zone.i have to just tweek it enough in those areas to get it as best as i can. those cans have a lot of overlap whe way the vacume guage acts. i am rideing it with a vacume guage and driving it to see the -cm hg so i know what area to tweek on the map. there are lots of things that the vacume does depending on load.
it idels around -20 to -22 cm. the dead zone is low when trying to drive in it down to -6cm.
it is sort of fun. i just am seeing whet i can get away with more or less. total numbers on the too rich map was around 16 in a block i just went up 10. i knew when it started on one hit cold it was phat. though i liked the one button hit starting. i do not want to kill the plugs either.
did i say it is snowing now . crap........
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petrik
Parking Attendant
Posts: 30
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posted February 09, 2008 09:12 AM
Dead zone around -6cmhg, what TPS position ?
I am not sure about ZX12, but on busa what you write may indicate that the dead zone is around IAP to TPS map switching area. At small TPS openings Busa needs to be tuned on the IAP map not on TPS map.
RR may confirm if ZX12 has both IAP and TPS maps like Busa has ?
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted February 09, 2008 09:19 AM
yeah, cold starting with a full muzzy isnt allways the best. one trick i learned was to put 3 fingers over the exhaust tip to restrict flow about 50% as i went to start it. fired up way easier.... but fixing the problem with the ecu is lightyears ahead of this crude trick
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted February 09, 2008 06:20 PM
today was a good day. i left the map alone below 1300 and went up 2 to 3 numbers from 1300 to 3200 except for the band at 2000 to 2400 i actually went down 2. guess what? it worked better than before to the point my new "map4" i am not messing with the ,muzzy area till spring. my ride today at 40degF made me smile. i could let it alone and it rides better than the tuneing i could do with the dobeck. this map may get shifted to map b at some time for a safe known map. next i would like the cold start better with this pipe. even stock kzscott i had to hit it a couple of times till it would stay running.yeah, i do the fingers thing sometimes.
for the others if you did not do this since you mostlikly did crank your vid up and most of the map will be on the screen with out sliding around all the time.
next step is dyno it. problem is i need to guess since i do not have a laptop.
i am sure the lower to mid range will be lean er than top end. i may boost the mid some and just a bit on top and try it maybe even do a lot of boost in the other map since RR gave us the dual map option. ridge thanks for your time in this.
ridge: i will email you map4
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted February 28, 2008 05:15 PM
RR any updates on the kill feature and the other stuff? i soon have to be sending the ECUs to you for the rev extend, and it would be great if we could get everything done in one shot. i really dont want to buy a kill box or tre if i dont have to... or a spare ecu mid season...
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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rick_b
Parking Attendant
Posts: 3
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posted February 29, 2008 01:46 PM
Is anything doing anything got any were with the 99 busa.
RR I still can not get on to your other site.
Rick
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted March 01, 2008 05:06 PM
hey Ridge I'm going to send you my ECU for my box stock 01 ZX12R..
supra
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted March 02, 2008 08:25 AM
rick_b
I've modified the rev limit and verified it works on a 99 and 00 busa but not done much besides that.
KZscott
To be honest I don't know if thats going to happen. The company I work for was recently bought out by a $2 billion conglomerate and I'm working real hard to impress my new bosses. So either I'm not going to have any free time to work on it or I'm going to have all the time in the world because I'll be unemployed 
Supra
What did you have in mind?
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted March 02, 2008 10:11 PM
ok, ill hold off for a bit then. if you dont have the free time, will you still be able to do the rev limit mod on a couple ecus and fix the timing for me?
thx
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted March 03, 2008 06:32 AM
Modifying some ecus and remapping them is not a big deal. I can still do that. But searching thru the code for that other stuff we talked about and then writing and testing patches for it is like 30 or 40 hours work.
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KZScott
Needs a life
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Posts: 7235
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posted March 03, 2008 08:47 AM
ok i got ya. thx RR
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted March 03, 2008 03:18 PM
Edited By: 2000redrocket on 3 Mar 2008 15:23
so i got to do some rideing and there must be a difference from ECUs. this one runs not too bad with out changeing anything. so i am adding fuel here and there watching my vacume guage and tach and something hit me that i herd before. the pipe made the bottom end rich. i got to ride a lot this afternoon and changed it 3 times for the richer. it got rougher and worse. so the last time i started from the bace map from ridge and in the color patterns it goes lean rich lean rich. so i took the area from the map that was higher and lowered them to the numbers below it and sort of above it. i got a laptop from ebay so now i am ready for the eddy current dyno. it is fairly good now. and just a tad leaner than the first time i said i made a good difference.
the bigger pipe must do something to the overlap and scavenging to ritchen it up.
last year when i blocked the kleen valve and reeds it ritchened up to the point i took it apart and reinstalled it.
what do you guys think on why a pipe like the muzzy makes the bottom end richer.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted March 03, 2008 07:00 PM
I thought. (correct me if I'm wrong) that the bike was programmed on the rich side from the factory. The catalytic converter allowed for the richer mixtures to be run. The catalyst would burn off the mixture that wasn't burned in the combustion chamber. If the catalyst isn't there then its seems to me that it would still be rich. I think RR said that the 00 ZX12R is programmed different as far as mixture than the 02.
supra
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted March 04, 2008 04:53 PM
Edited By: 2000redrocket on 4 Mar 2008 17:14
someone on zx-12r.org said the pipe fattens up the bottom end. well i proved it i would say cause after the last slight richening up i stopped and switched to the "B" map which i did not do anything to and it was better and smoother. so i said go figure and took the stock 69us map for the 2000 and made the areas that were high around the 1900 to 2600 area and lowered them to sortof the numbers below and above like blending. when i gave it a tad of throttle going up hill it did not faulter nere like before to not at all. pulling 5th and 6th in the 2000 to 2600 zone.
when i was adding fuel to the area on my other try it fell on its fase worse each time i went up 3 numbers. the first time was not bad and i liked it but then more fuel and it got worse and not smooth rideing it.
last time going lean in the fat areas only and slightly boosting the fuel from 26 to 3200 i noticed the vacume was higher in a given gear and rpms i was use to rideing at and looking at the vacume.
this is mapb cyl1 un touched.
this is the map i changed.
this is the difference. it did not get too well. i hope it is viewable.
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted March 15, 2008 10:49 AM
power junky bliss. my laptop plugged into my bikes ECU.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted March 31, 2008 06:48 PM
any updates guys?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted April 03, 2008 12:41 PM
i do not have any updates. not good weather yet. soon. next step is spend 400 for wego3 wide band gismo or go to a dyno on the west shore who can load the bike on the dyno not just wing it wide open. i can set that fuel my self and get close. i hate to say it but i like stuff. i'lll soon get the 400 buck wego3.
kz did you see the guy on the other form bad mouth the dobeck i was using? i hate to say but it worked fine and still works. and it just adds fuel from the stock ecu data.ridge am i wrong? it is load senceing they say but the ecu does it it just adds extra fuel.
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted May 03, 2008 10:54 AM
so i dynoed the rocket thursday and dragraced it friday night.
i used the ecu mod programs and everything worked out well. i could target a lean bubble and ritchen it the middle of it and push it down twards richer. i ended up with leaning out the top end a little. and at the track it stayed close to the same for the first run of 13.4:1 but the last 3 runs i recorded show 13.8 to 14. it was getting colder but it still is in the optimal zone though a little lean aat 14.
one thing i noticed is at 4000 it was running way rich even up past 5500. the wego3 i installed helped to target the rich/lean areas on the density map and it all workes good.
i now have a muzzy ti pipe zx12r that has no muzzy syndrome(though i want to lean the area out a bit more) and dynoed a average of 186 to 187hp i did see 1 188.8something almost 189.
all in all tyhis was a great expereance for me
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted May 12, 2008 10:22 AM
I got some real world results form a professional tuner in Greece of all places.
He tuned an '01 that was basically stock except for an existing Akro pipe and a Power Commander. He reflashed the ECU to raise the redline to 12,300 and added some timing changes. He claims he got a 5hp increase over the PCIII / Akro alone.
Says he was able to do 9.9 in the 400m (about 7 feet shy of a quarter mile). I don't have any details on if/how he adjusted the PCIII after flashing the ECU.
Here are his ignition changes compared to stock.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted May 12, 2008 06:06 PM
nice results! totally stock motor with just the muzzy pipe?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted May 13, 2008 07:42 AM
Akropovic pipe
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PetriK
Parking Attendant
Posts: 30
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posted May 13, 2008 08:19 AM
Edited By: PetriK on 13 May 2008 09:25
I can also confirm that the reflashing stuff that RR invented works in real world, even though for a different brand of bike and a lot more modifications in the engine.
We went from almost a stock bike to about 50hp over stock with "some" engine modifications - all tuning of that bike was done using reflashing capabilities of the ecu.... and that is still without nitrous that will be added soon ;-). (The bike is cammed, ported, with short ports, airbox enlargened, bigger than stock exhaust valves, 13.2:1 copression etc... so I can really recommend this method of reflashing for anyone seriously interested in improving the bike performance.)
For a completely stock bike with pipes we got a gain of 3hp in the dyno just by reflashing the fuelmaps.
We have not had time to play with the ignition but from past experience I know that there is more to gain there with high octane fuels.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 13, 2008 01:13 PM
why didn't he add more timing. Y2K says 5 degrees gives you 6-8 RWHP
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted May 13, 2008 03:41 PM
quote:
Akropovic pipe
i should have been more specific, i was asking red rocket about the pipe
but the drag racer that got a 9.9 in (pretty much) the 1/4, was it stock wheelbase? airshifted? other mods besides the arkopovic pipe?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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