ridgeracer
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Posts: 1309
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posted June 23, 2007 06:08 AM
You got lucky Supra and caught me on a 'good' day. It was raining all day so I didn't go riding. It was also the first day of Summer Vacation for the kids and the first summer I've tried to work at home with 4 teenagers, 4 rainy day bored teenagers in the house fighting over the TV remote and computer. It didn't take much for me to convince myself that no work would get done and to go hide in the garage with your ECU.
Besides considering all the help you've been to this project I felt the least I could do is expedite things so you could be the first kid on the block (or planet) with a modified OEM ECU 
Supra is having me remove the first gear 'restriction' from the ignition map. Below is a comparison of the first gear map and all the other ignition maps.
I will use the Enginuity software to cut an paste that section form the other coil map and make first gear the same as the rest. This is a pretty conservative mod as the -A1 and -A2 models didn't even have the first gear map 'feature'
   
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted June 23, 2007 06:40 AM
are the B1 ignition maps the same as the A1 ignition maps? In gears 2-6?
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supra5677
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posted June 23, 2007 06:42 AM
Those numbers look different.. Did you convert the numbers into degrees BTDC?
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ridgeracer
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Posts: 1309
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posted June 23, 2007 08:08 AM
That is a difference map. Where the number is 0 the two maps are the same. The numbers show the amount of difference positive or negative. The map is read for the number 17 is ...
"Compared to Coil 1 Map A the same value in Coil 1234 Map AB is 17 more"
Here is a comparison of the non 1st gear coil map of the B1 to the A2 coil map. (I don't have an A1 map yet) Read it as compared to the A2 map the B1 map is ____
What I see is the greatest difference in the same area as the restrictive B1 1st gear map. It looks to me that the A2, which doesn't have a 1st gear only map, had a compromise map that made the bike more ridable in first gear at the expense of performance in all the other gears.
In the B1 they added a first gear only map allowing them to remove the restriction from the other 5 gears.
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supra5677
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posted June 23, 2007 08:16 AM
I think the 21175-1069 map is the most "radical" make it as uncompromising as possible!
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted June 23, 2007 09:43 AM
Well if Freek notches his A1 I guess we will find out. I have the UK A1 that I messed up (21175-1065) that I will fix and download someday.
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rgeorge
Expert Class
Posts: 220
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posted June 23, 2007 11:42 AM
Well done Ridge.
Next time my bike is gonna be down for a while I'll send you my B2 ECU so you can get the maps from it.
Just one tiny nitpick though,
The Y-axis of the 1089 contains one more row than the 1079. You need to omit the first row on the 1089 map (586rpm) when you do a compare. The way you have done the comparison above, you are comparing cells that do not correspond to the same rpm. That is why there is a row of leftovers at the bottom. The leftover row should be at the top.
Rob
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blubyu
Expert Class
Posts: 209
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posted June 24, 2007 05:25 AM
OK...There is no way I'm going to be able to notch, reflash, reprogram..etc.. All I need to know is who in the Northeast area is going to be working with these so I can bring my bike to them and they can do mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted June 24, 2007 09:38 AM
quote:
Next time my bike is gonna be down for a while I'll send you my B2 ECU so you can get the maps from it.
In the manuals both the B1/B2 use the same ECU, the 21175-1089 and show the same schematic used for both. The software / map is probably the same also though it would be nice to verify that.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted June 24, 2007 11:48 AM
I am working on detailed instructions on HOW to flash a ZX-12 ECU. And of course page 1 is the following disclaimer.
quote:
USER DISCLAIMER
User, his/her heirs, assigns, legal representatives and attorneys, knowingly and voluntarily release any and all claims, demands, or causes of action, known or unknown, which he/she may have against the author, his/her successors, assigns, representatives and lessees arising from any injury or illness, including death or disability, incurred in connections with the use of the information contained in this document.
No warranty is expressed nor implied. User assumes all responsibility for the results of using the information contained herein. User understands that the use of this information could result in the destruction of User's ECU, damage or destruction of his/her engine, and sudden and/or unexpected loss of power or surge in power resulting in loss of control of User's motorcycle causing serious injury or death.
User agrees that if he/she uses this information on an ECU not owned by User that User will inform the ECUs owner of the possible hazards.
For more information contact bike.mbially@olympus.net
I don't want anyone to come crying to me because they turned their ECU into a brick or killed themselves. God knows that if there is someone stupid enough to try to trim his hedge with a lawnmower there is someone stupid enough to put a bunch of zeros in an ignition map and flash it into his/her bike and then go for a test ride on some high speed sweeper where the bike suddenly loses power at 8000 rpm and then surges on again at 7500 causing him/her to wipe out. If you don't know what your doing find someone who does. If you don't know that you don't know what your doing then this disclaimer is for you.
Item number two. Knowing HOW to flash the ZX-12 map is not the same as knowing WHAT to flash in the ZX-12 map.
Obviously it would of been silly of me to spend hours and hours of time figuring out what each and every byte of the map was for and only THEN find out if I could actually change it and reflash it. So of course I figured out HOW before I figured out WHAT.
The map definitions I have made for the Enginuity software so far include only the largest (and therefore easiest to find) Ignition and Fuel maps and a few misc gear maps. There are maps for water temp, air pressure sensor alignment, etc. It includes 3D maps, 2D maps and single byte on/off feature switches like enabling the A/B map feature.
Then of course I need to write a separate definition for each version of ECU A1, A2, B1/B2 and I also have a UK A1. They get easier as I learn what I'm looking for but will still take time.
All shall be revealed, in time.
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rgeorge
Expert Class
Posts: 220
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posted June 25, 2007 04:30 PM
 Edited By: rgeorge on 25 Jun 2007 17:31
quote:
In the manuals both the B1/B2 use the same ECU, the 21175-1089 and show the same schematic used for both.
Yup.
I just looked in my B2's tail, it does have the 21175-1089.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted June 25, 2007 08:57 PM
Okay I need some help from one of you master ZX-12 motor building guys. I'm trying to convert the ignition coil map numbers into real world numbers and I realized I'm missing a key piece of information:
I don't know the relationship of the crankshaft sensor timing wheel tabs to TDC and BDC and to the tab sensor. I'm assuming the tabs are aligned with TDC and BDC. But where is the sensor in relation to that? When cylinder 1 is at top dead center is there a tab directly in front of the sensor or ???
There are eight tabs on the timing wheel or one every 45 degrees. I figured out the map values are divided by 256 then multiplied by 2 tab times or 90 degrees. For instance 128/256 = 1/2 * 90 =45 degrees. This number is then subtracted from 67.5 degrees. So the map value of 128 converts to 22.5 degrees. This means that the coil will fire 22.5 degrees after the current tab passed the sensor.
So if the next tab, which is 45 degrees away is TDC then the advance is 22.5 degrees provided the sensor is mounted so a tab is in front of it when a piston is at TDC. Or, as I suspect, the sensor is say 10 degrees before TDC then that map value would give you 32.5 BTDC.
Any info in this area would be helpful.
BTW in tacking this down I found that once the base value is pulled from the map there are 10 other parameters or tables that add or subtract a degree or two of timing to the final value. These Include.
Throttle Change Rate: not where it is but how quickly your twisting it.
Crank Acceleration: Not RPM but how quickly the RPMs are increasing or decreasing
Static Air Pressure: There is an A/B map for this one
Air Temp:
Gear Position: This one had all 0 values in the map but you can change the map to add or subtract timing by gear (except neutral)
A few more that are fixed values in the map:
and the biggest surprise,
Bike Speed. Independent of gear the ignition timing is tweaked depending on how fast the bike is going. So at least on the B1/B2 model if your using a yellow box or a Bonneville box etc it is having an effect on your ignition timing. How much, good or bad, I haven't quantified yet.
I'll put all these tables in an updated Enginuity Definition once I figure out the timing question. I'll do the base map in degrees BTDC and the misc maps in degrees +/- change in base. Unfortunately there is not going to be an UberMap where you can stick 15 degrees in it and then go to the bike, stick a timing light on it and it will be 15 degrees.
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chrisdhall
Novice Class
Posts: 64
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posted June 26, 2007 10:36 AM
Edited By: chrisdhall on 26 Jun 2007 11:38
I wonder what Mr Simon Chitty would make of this!
(Mr Chitty of Kawasaki Customer Services, is a legend in his own lunchtime to ZX12 owners in the UK. Especially if you had cause to speak with him with respect to the stator connector )
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted June 27, 2007 08:33 AM
Edited By: ridgeracer on 27 Jun 2007 11:45
Referring to the Diagram above:
The timing wheel is shown with cylinders 1 and 4 at TDC. You can see that the sensor is mounted 10 degrees off the TDC line. This means that when tab 8 is directly in front of the sensor the crank is at 10 BTDC. Which is the idle timing advance specified in the manual.
In looking at the software I find that actually tab 7 would trigger the Coil timing calculation. It would pull the value from the coil maps shown above and then subtract it from 67.5 degrees. The idle figure, and lowest value shown, in the map is 64. As explained above this is a fraction of 90 degrees, 256 being 1/1 and 64/256 = 1/4 = 22.5 degrees.
Now when tab 7 is in front of the sensor 67.5 degrees in the future is half way between tabs 1 and 8. Of course 67.5 - 22.5 = 45 degrees. 45 degrees after tab 7 is in front of the sensor would be tab 8 in front of the sensor or as stated above 10 BTDC.
So the formula ends up being ((mapvalue / 256) * 90) -12.5 = degrees BTDC
I'll update the Enginuity definition with that formula and post a new map in degrees BTDC
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted June 27, 2007 10:47 AM
Edited By: ridgeracer on 27 Jun 2007 11:52
Here is the -B1/B2 Iginition Advance map with units in Degrees BTDC
BTW the Enginuity software will not let you exceed 77.1 degrees as it translates to a byte value > 256. The actual limit however is 55 degrees. Any value over that the ECU software forces to 55
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supra5677
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posted June 27, 2007 03:32 PM
why not 36 degrees advance in the upper rpm ranges? Why only 32.5?
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ridgeracer
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posted June 27, 2007 04:10 PM
Edited By: ridgeracer on 27 Jun 2007 17:12
Well if the Rev Limit is set to 11,600 rpm then the above map would start to retard the timing as RPMs approched 11,719. The maps themselves may be part of the limiting mechanism.
BTW It is not 36 from 11328 to 11718 and then suddenly jumps to 32.5 at 11719. Actually the software averages out the map values. For example if a map reads say 20 at 2000 and 28 at 3000 and the actual RPMs are 2250 then then the map will return 22.
The difference between 2000 and 3000 is a 1000 and 2250 less the lower value is 250 and 250/1000 = 1/4. The difference between 20 and 28 is 8 and 1/4 of 8 is 2 so it would return the lower value plus 2 or 22.
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supra5677
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posted June 28, 2007 06:35 AM
my internal clock was changed to add another 640rpm's.. I guess eventually I'll have to add some ignition and injector maps to compensate for the addtional rpm's..probabably up to 12,500
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ridgeracer
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Posts: 1309
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posted June 28, 2007 11:42 AM
From the ECUs perspective your bike still only revs to 11,600 Rotations Per Minute. By changing the clock however you shortened your minutes 5% to 57 seconds. This means all your maps already go to redline. To convert these maps to your ECU just multiply the RPMs by 1.055
While the crystal change is a interesting approach I think it just changes too many unknown parameters. Of course now that you have a BDM port on your ecu you can just reprogram the Clock Synthesizer Control Register mentioned above and restore your ECU to real time without physically having to change the crystal.
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ridgeracer
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Posts: 1309
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posted June 29, 2007 08:37 AM
I've been playing around with the definitions and I think I have been able to calibrate the intake manifold pressure to a real world unit of cm Hg (centimeters Mercury). The X axis values are the inlet compared to static pressure, thats why most of them are negative. On first glance it doesn't look like the map takes into account much Ram Air Pressure. Only the last far right column of the map is for positive pressure and then only 1 cm Hg or about 0.2 psi. But when you think about it any normally aspirated intake that can even match the ambient pressure when the bike is pumping at 10,000 rpm must be getting a boost somewhere.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted June 29, 2007 09:55 AM
Psycho measured the 12r's ram air pressure going to ambient at 40mph
Sport Rider Ram Air Whats is worth projected the zx9r's ram air at 44mb
68.9 milibars equals 1 psi
Does the map match this data?
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rgeorge
Expert Class
Posts: 220
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posted June 29, 2007 09:59 AM
Thanks Ridge, you just answered the question I left on your site a while back. That looks like I expected.
Ive done some datalogging of the inlet air pressure sensor recently. I had a very hard time getting it to read over ambient. I kept running out of road before I could get the bike going fast enough to be positive.
I suspect that my dirty airfilters were hurting the pressure some.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 29, 2007 09:40 PM
i have logged MAP 10? passes or so at the Texas mile.
From memory cause i don't have my data in front of me...
An apples to apples comparison is 10,000 rpm at low speed (80??mph) vs 10,000 rpm at 190mph+/-.
29.4"-Hg vs 30.4"Hg; as i remember MAP would get right at ambient, or maybe a bit above.
I believe psycho was measuring airbox pressure not MAP pressure.
RR:
My ever dutiful, garage-widow wife didn't send my ECU to you until this morning 
I was outa town and she was gonna send it on Mon, but forgot.
Oh well, it'll get to yr house wed/thurs next week.
Karl
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This moderator uses moderation in moderation
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ridgeracer
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posted June 29, 2007 09:57 PM
No problem, get it to me when you can.
BTW what is the most common unit of measurement used by tuners? Inches Hg, cm Hg, millibars, psi? Now that I have the hard part figured out it would be simple to pick any of those units. I picked cmHg because it was the unit used by all the pressure charts in the shop manual. I also found it interesting that last three columns in the map end up being -1, 0, and 1 when using that unit.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted June 30, 2007 05:28 AM
A lot of the magazines use Millibars
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