supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted November 12, 2006 02:52 PM
Hey Ridge.. Do you need the plugs from the powercommander? I just
unplugged mine and running my akrapovic and modified ecu without it. My
ecu has 2 degrees of advance in it and 600 more rpm. Go figure the
bike runs BETTER than my custom mapped pc3r with my modified ecu. It
basically has 5% less fuel, 5% more rpm and 2 % more ignition. To make a
long story short do you need the powercommander?
   
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 12, 2006 05:18 PM
I'll get back to you on that Supra. I'm going to go look at my friends '00 12r which has a PC and compare the plugs. Most of you seem pretty sure they are the same plug but it can't hurt to make sure before people start hacking up PCIIIs.
Besides while a donated plug solves the problem in the short term it would be nice to have a long term source for the plugs.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 12, 2006 10:16 PM
UPDATE:
I figured out the settings for the COV3 input. (The knob marked COV 3 with settings A B C D E F in the pic above)
There is a variable derived from the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) that is a number between 1 and 4 depending on the TPS value or Throttle Zone.
Zone 1 < 20% TPS
20% < Zone 2 < 43% TPS
44% < Zone 3 < 67% TPS
Zone 4 > 67% TPS
The offset value used to modify the injection timing when the TPS is in zone 4 is the offset value stored when the COV 3 knob is at 'A'. 'B' is zone 3, and 'C' is zone 2. That makes the switch settings
A = High
B = Med
C = Low
Now at first something didn't make sense. If Low is 20% to 44% then that means you can't adjust the bike at idle. Some one correct me on this if I'm wrong but isn't the TPS idle voltage something like 1.17 or 1.18 V? If so then we are OK because 20% of 5V is 1V which means the bike idles in zone 2.
So what are the D, E, and F settings for? Well as far as where the mixture values are written into the ECU Non-Volatile RAM (NVRAM) D-E-F are redundant;
A = F = High
B = E = Med
C = D = Low
The difference is that while D-E-F write to the same locations as A-B-C they do not modify the settings real time while the bike is running the way A-B-C does. I think testing will show that D-E-F are redundant and don't need to be included on future boxes
Also two odd things showed up while rummaging around in the code. Some bikes come from the factory with a shorting wire installed on the wire harness plug used by the bluefordbox.
The manual lists the following
ECU 21175-1087 open connector
ECU 21175-1089 open connector
ECU 21175-1090 Short circuit connector
ECU 21175-1091 Short Circuit connector
ECU 21175-1092 Short Circuit connector
The short is between the COV 3 input and ground. When I was tracing out the COV 3 code for the BlueFordBox I ran across something very strange.
The ECU I'm working on is a 21175-1089 which says no jumper installed, yet the code looks for a jumper at power up and.....wait for it.....Loads different map values for 2nd and 3rd gears depending on whether the jumper is installed or not.
Not only that, there is a value in NVRAM that determines whether the change_the_map_if_COV3_jumpered feature is enabled or not. It basically makes it look like no jumper present even if the jumper is installed.
My test ECU was jumper disabled at the factory but it turns out this NVRAM value can be changed by the BlueFordBox. I found that the COV2 (Cylinder) input actually has a 5th setting that allows you to modify the Jumper enable value.
A quick glance at the maps shows little or no difference between the jumpered and unjumpered maps for 3rd gear. The 2nd gear map, however, has a 10% increase across the entire upper 3/4s of the data.
Again the usual disclaimers apply. I still don't know how map data like this translates into actual changes in injector timing or horsepower. But I thought it was an interesting find.
I guess I will have to modify my BlueFordBox and add a 5th position to the COV 2 knob. Luckily its alread a 6 position rotary switch so I just need to add another resistor and move the locking ring.
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted November 13, 2006 07:30 AM
Yes idle should be 1.084 - 1.086V so it's in the 20-43% zone. That jumper system sounds interesting. I can check but I remember reading from the book that there is also a list of different ECUs and different lands. For example Australia dosen't have Catalytic converter but why change only 2nd and 3rd gear. Does the change apply to ignition also? Have to check my book...
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted November 13, 2006 07:34 AM
And one other note too, if the change depends on TPS sensor it changes the fuelling on all RPM's with the above mentioned TPS setting - right? And by the way - can you read the existing values from the ECU? OF course that dosen't matter very much because You can change them on the fly without saving them, but would be nice to know...
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted November 13, 2006 09:30 AM
To RR:
The Nikko G pack states that the 00-03 zx12r is restricted in 2nd and 3rd gears via ignition and injection. it also states it is in the rpm range of 2000- 9200 rpms.. Maybe this can help explain some of your findings as you go...
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted November 13, 2006 01:59 PM
To RR:
Was able to find these ECU's that do exist in powersports pro search
21175-1064 must be a 2000
21175-1065, 2000?
21175-1066, 2000?
21175-1069 this is the common ecu for 2000's.
21175-1071 not sure what year but could be a 2000
21175-1079 which is the common part number for a 2001
21175-1082 not sure what year
21175-1084 not sure what year
21175-1089 which is common for the 02.
I ran all the number consecutive from 1063 which didn't exist all the way to 1093 which this particular search coulnd't find.. The 21175-1064 seems to be the first ecu made for this bike. I wonder if this is the same ecu Doug Meyer used when working on Gadson's Bike. I know he said that the engine internals were similar (in fact the production bike was in some ways better) but what about the ECU just a thought..??
supra
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted November 15, 2006 11:38 AM
Checked my own '00 Service manual wich states different ECU numbers for ECUs with or without shorting link. Didn't find the information to wich market the different ECUs are made. Thought that the numbers were the same but they weren't so I didn't have them with me now. In the manual also read that ECUs and shorting links are paired, wich explains the code checking the shorting like. What's interesting is my ECU-numbers with my '00 12. I had the original ECU swapped with the High Alititude version (mine is sub 5000 on the VIN) so it buggered on idle when I went high up to the mountain. The interesting thing is that my original ECU had the following part-number: 112100-0470! The H-A version had number 21175-1068, wich means it has the shorting link in place.
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted November 15, 2006 11:42 AM
And by the way was the 10% increase in the 2nd gear with jumper on or off?
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted November 15, 2006 12:00 PM
Found on the net that German Kawasaki part reseller http://www.teilweise-motorrad.de/gebrauchtteile/rub1~Kawasaki~rub2~ZX%2D12R%20BJ%3A%2002%2D~artnr~2891110~pn~20~func~det~wkid~10741978017184215.html on web sells '02 ECU for number 21175-1087, 112100-1290. So that makes me think that it's the European version. It also said the completely other number like in my original one (of which the service manual dosen't speak?)
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted November 15, 2006 04:00 PM
Do you think the 21175-1087 ecu performs better than the 21175-1089 ECU. Or the 112100-1290?
supra
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted November 15, 2006 04:03 PM
There are so many ECU's for different countries. I think I'll start making a record of them
for information purposes..
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 15, 2006 08:00 PM
I was checking out the Nikko G-Pak site. I found that their product for the 01-03 zx-12s claims power increases in
quote:
ignition,injection 2nd. 2000-9200
ignition,injection 3rd. 1500-9200
I think this is interesting considering the recent maps I found for 2nd and 3rd gear.
I'm pretty sure their device is just modifying which gear the bike thinks it is in.
To answer Tsuusinii's question the 10% map was with the jumper installed.
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted November 15, 2006 10:47 PM
quote:
Do you think the 21175-1087 ecu performs better than the 21175-1089 ECU. Or the 112100-1290?
supra
Don't know about it but that I do know that the High-Altitude version also works better at the sealevel too. The difference wasn't big but You could feel that the throttle response was smoother with the new H-A ECU than the original. Also if You read the service manual there are 2 types of headers and 2 types of cans for ZX12. Maleysia and Australia have headers that don't have cat in it like the rest of the world. Also the can in different for European and US-market. And where Maleysia uses the US version, Australia uses the "European" version. So You would think that they probably have different ECU for Maleysia and Australia too. And then of course there are these restricted versions for France, Switzerland, etc... They probably have different ECUs too.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted November 16, 2006 07:54 PM
Hey Ridge did you find the source of those connectors yet..? I can call
powercommander and do some searching. SOMEBODY has those
plugs lying around a warehouse somewhere.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 18, 2006 06:28 AM
No luck on the connectors yet.
If you want to give Power Commander a call go for it. It seems to be the conventional wisdom that one of the power commander plugs is the same as the wire harness plug used by my bluefordbox.
Since you have a PC you might want to go out to your bike and just make sure first that the PC plug mates with the Input signal to memory plug on the wire harness. If I remember correctly it is on the left side under the front seat.
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zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted November 18, 2006 06:33 PM
Ridge I have an "Extra Yoshimura EMS" "Laying around" If I can find the thing, I will "donate" it to the cause, if its that you wont destroy the connector. You can cut the wires as long as they would be able to be spliced.. I'll look for it later.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 19, 2006 09:02 AM
 Edited By: ridgeracer on 19 Nov 2006 09:04
Thanks I'll keep that in mind. How long is the cable between the plug and the box? All I really want to do is get a look at the pins and measure them so I can find them or something similar on the internet. My goal is to be able to source this plug so the do-it-yourselfer can build one of these units.
Actually I'm going to see a guy today about using his 2000 ZX-12 to test the box on and to verify the wiring and plug. If I can pull one of his pins out I'll do that. (I'm not actually testing the box today, just getting my ducks in a row)
While supra offered to test the box on his bike, which is the same year as the ECU I'm hacking, I would rather do the initial tests here if possible. The guy at the local kawi parts counter has an exhaust gas analyzer and I have an oscilliscope. I would like to put a scope on the injector and actually measure the increase/decrease of the injector pulse as the box is adjusted full range to be able to actually quantify the amount of change.
Besides if I do it locally the plug is not an issue. I can just rig up some leads I can jam into the bike plug.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 19, 2006 11:47 AM
OK....so much for Plan A
I just got off the phone with the guy who was going to let me look at his -12 and it turns out he sold it yesterday. ( 2000 w/ Muzzy pipe, PCIII etc for $4500 in case any of you were wondering)
So I guess I will take you up on your offer zxlnt. PM me or email to make arrangements.
Thanks.
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted November 19, 2006 03:11 PM
I'll get to finding it and digging it out for ya..
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extremelean
Pro
Posts: 1651
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posted November 20, 2006 06:25 PM
http://catalog.tycoelectronics.com/TE/bin/TE.Menu?M=MENU&BML=11177&ID=13983&I=13
Try looking here for plugs
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extremelean
Pro
Posts: 1651
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posted November 20, 2006 06:56 PM
http://connectors.delphi.com/site/home/HomeMain.asp
try here too.
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extremelean
Pro
Posts: 1651
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posted November 20, 2006 07:05 PM
On the Delpi site.....check out the GT280 series sealed connectors
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extremelean
Pro
Posts: 1651
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posted November 20, 2006 07:25 PM
Here is a Japanese connector site......
http://www.jae-connector.com/en/catalog_en.cfm
I found JAE on 2 ECU connector plugs on a wire harness I have.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 22, 2006 09:47 AM
Some of those are close but not exactly the same shell. There is a pretty good chance that some of the pins used by these other connectors would fit in the Kawi shell however
Thanks for the help.
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