posted April 13, 2002 04:26 PM
new features for bikeland.org? it's rather rare that i actually feel like doing any work, so while i'm riding this sure to be shortlived wave of inspriation, does anyone have any features they'd like to see added to the site, or changes in general? don't be shy to suggest anything, even if u dont know much about websites and worry that what u ask can't be done. ya never know what wierd idea proves to be a popular stroke of genius.
Zone Head
Goes to water over a dummy!!!
Posts: 602
posted April 13, 2002 08:43 PM
How about this? Quit locking posts when they are moved to the classified section. Sometimes it is easier to find out information in regular post.
Rocket
____________
If I get any smarter, my head will explode!
posted April 13, 2002 09:51 PM
HA! i NEVER fuck anything up. i'm perfect!....NOT!
dave, good idea. i'll do that.
rocket, u wanna expand on that a bit? i don't think i quite get it. are u saying leave the thread alone & dont move it to classifieds? if so, that's not an option as we want to keep classified stuff (selling bikes & parts) out of the zx12rzone. otherwise it just degenerates into a mess. but i'm not so sure thats what u were saying.
posted April 13, 2002 10:54 PM
yeah, we were lookin a tthe pool thing before. ever remember what came out of that? i thought we werent able to pull it off cause it requires the server side java too, which we can't get. the online checker thing for the chat client, that's possible. but tricky. can't do it until we install our own chat client tho. cant use that bluechat thing or whatever we're using now.
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
posted April 13, 2002 11:39 PM
That's what the classified section is for. I don't mind an item for sale to be "announced" on The Zone, but any discussion or questions concerning items for sale by individuals, really need to be taken care of in the classified section. The keeps The Zone from turning into some kind of "12R EBay".
I also have some reservations about "non-board advertising" businesses hawking their goods here, as well. Bear's stacks and Hans carbon fiber, come to mind. It's not that I don't want them to offer their wares here. Quite the opposite, I'm glad that they do. It's just that I'm thinking that they should be treated similar to individual sales. In other words, announce it on The Zone and past a link to where they can get more information or actually buy their product.
It's just that in the case of a company selling their goods on The Zone, it's not fair to Muzzy, Spencer Cycle and others who actually SUPPORT this site and all of it's forums. To hawk one's goods without offering to actually support this site would be no different the Fish and frEEk selling the members' e-mail addresses.
If I had my choice, any business would be more then welcome to post a link to their site and breifly say what it is that they are offering... ONCE! The tread would then be locked out and if anyone had any questions, they could go to the vendor's site. If folks wish to profit off of this site's members, they can contact Fish or frEEk about advertising rates and give back a little of what this site's members have given them.
Again, this site isn't free. Somebody has to pay and it's not the members. I just don't think that Fish and frEEk should have to pay money out of their own pockets so some business can have a free advertising database.
Discussion about the product by those that are happy or unhappy with it (like about the "monster snorkel"), is fine. When it becomes a "buy this", that's not fine. If one notices, site advertisers like Muzzy and Spencer Cycle only post to announce a "special" or a new product. Beyond that, they just offer technical support to those that might have a question about the application of their products.
I understand The Zone to be a "forum". A "forum" that is a place to discuss the 12R, bike related topics and to share personal opinions held by 12R owners (and other bikers). I don't think this is a place that a business can do an "infomercial" and "troll" for potential customers for free.
I'm as intersted in new products as much as the next 12R owner. I'm also very interested in the opinions of those that have bought these new products and have tried them on their 12R. It's just that since I work in the advertising industry, it gets my goat when I see a business get a "free ride" on this forum.
When it goes beyond anything past an "anouncement", they know (and I do too) that they are getting "free time" with one of the largest concentrations of their desired target market. They can buy ads in every cycle magazine and not reach 10% of what they can by posting here. Since they are not even inquiring about how the can support this site (and it's not like they don't understand how it works), they are doing nothing more then taking advantage of Fish and frEEk's hard work.
To me, if they don't show any interest in supporting this site and all of it's forums, then that can only mean that the only thing they care about is what's in our wallets. If this forum shut down due to a lack of money, they'd just go to the next site they could find and start all over again.
Since these folks are not selling their goods at BELOW THEIR COST, then they must be making a profit. A profit of the "free advertising" that they get off of sites like ours. I know that this isn't the same as an individual trying to sell something... I just needed to get that off my chest.
As for locking out and moving individual sales, how hard can it be to visit the classified section? Yeah, it'd be easier for some if it was just left on The Zone, but then it would change what The Zone is about and it would make having a classified section pointless. You might as well merge ALL the forums in to just one great big catch all forum. Then I'd be more then happy to let someone else moderate it, because I wouldn't want to have a thing to do with it.
Now Rocket, please don't take this the wrong way. What I'm saying really isn't specifically "aimed" towards you. Really! I'm just saying that when a forum gets cluttered up with a lot of posts, it makes it that much harder to find those good informational posts.
Not only am I as guilty as anyone else here of posting WAY OFF topic stuff, but I've also been slacking on my "job" as moderator and insuring that the forum remains focused (i.e. Deal's Gap info and posts, since they also have their own forum). It's not like everything is out of control or anything like that. It's just that Mad Dog, Fish and frEEk have put out a lot of effort to create forums for our various interests and it would be a shame if we were to just ignore them.
A perfect example would be "The Library" forum. The objective of this forum is to be a storehouse of many of the very informative and technical posts and topics relating to the 12R. It's just that to track down all the posts and threads is quite a monumental task. One that would require days (if not weeks) of researching all the old threads and picking out the posts that are really important.
Needless to say, nobody has jumped up and offered to do this. Everybody is just sittin' around and wondering when Fish or frEEk will get off their butts and do something with it. As if either one of them would be more then happy to give up more of their personal time and MORE IMPORTANTLY, THEIR RIDING TIME.
Everyone just need to be happy that I'M NOT RESPONSIBLE for this site. If it were me... there wouldn't be a site! How does that go? A new tire for my bike or pay the internet site bill? Hmmm... YA'LL LOSE! A new tire for my bike it is!
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
posted April 14, 2002 07:23 AM
RPG... I meant some sort of a role playing game..... but I'd settle fer cards er something linked with a chat so I could have a beer and play some of these guys (and gals) online....
now freek.. you of all people should know that the technical elements of HOW t do it escape me... but I can whip up a nice logo and some colors to make it look pretty
---- thanks redelk fer saying that.... you hit the nail on the head....
I am also going to stop locking the fersale threads here, and just move them and nuke them out of this forum....
posted April 14, 2002 09:21 AM
If I may weigh in with my "vendor" hat on for a moment, I see something occasionally that makes me wince.
Currently there is an active topic entitled "Han's test/does not work" . Well it might and it might not, that it doesn't is what the initial results by the tester showed but what if maybe somewhere later in the forum this title proves to be inaccurate? The original title is out there with it's negative implication as long as it stays on the page.
Another more personal example:
Recently on LAB a topic showed up labeled "Installed Doug's map/Runs like crap" Obviously this got my attention and after a conversation with Ozzy and some suggestions on what OTHER things may be causing the "crap running" he reversed his opinion. Problem was, the title was still there for anyone who didn't take the time to read the full dialog to leave with the inference that this Muzzy map WAS crap (which it is not). I asked Ozzy if he would mind editing the title and he kindly did.
So, would it be within a moderator's rights and responsibilities to change titles to more accurately reflect what is actually being dicsussed in a given topic as it progresses?
Something like "Hans test/a discussion of results" or "Installed Doug's map / still having some problems"
Waddaya think?
Doug
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
posted April 14, 2002 09:43 AM
Tell 'em, Doug Doug Meyer, I usually don't have anything really worthwhile to offer here at the boards, but as a consumer of goods and info, what you stated is absolutely correct in the eyes of this consumer...its the fair and intelligent thing to do ____________
...just relax...my dog wants to use only one of your legs...
posted April 14, 2002 10:34 AM
um...i know what an RPG is fish just wondering how it would be tied into the chat? i guess i took it mening more like an old fashioned text only rpg, but i guess u'r talking about something mroe like diablo. all of those online style games already have chat built in, or at least most do that i know of. anyway, i dont see that we can get something like that together. everyone would have to get a copy of the game, then we could run a server, but i doubt there's that many gaming types on here anyhow.
redelk, thx for that very complete and concise dialogue, as always
doug, i for one think that u have a good point. this is an issue that has been brought up in other boards (usually with disastrous results because of less than tactful vendors, unlike urself), and more recently in the news. hopefully people will give the benefit of the doubt and keep the original post a little more neutral, but that's not human nature, and i think as often as not, it is just a matter of someone's style of speech. in any case, i for one will adjust titles that are less than reflective of the content of such threads in the future.
posted April 14, 2002 04:36 PM
I meant a text RPG ...
Princess Kiwi and I were just talking about the "censorship" subject which Doug has raised, and she brings up a very good point....
If she posts a thread saying "My Muzzy Dogbones are great!"... should that title then be censored? This is the problem with censorship... it has to go both ways... I am inclined to leave the titles of threads as they are....
this is a discussion forum, after all... people have to READ the threads to find out what they are about... editting the titles really has little effect on the content.. look at this thread, for example.. it's about censorship when really it was about new technical features on the board...
not to mention, members SHOULD be able to come here and say that their Muzzy system is a piece of shit, or their Powercommander sucks....
Doug.. you yourself told me that you enjoyed the negative feedback and that it helped you as a manufacturer to gauge what people wanted and needed.
Leave it the way that it is.. uncensored.. IMHO... people have to take the bad with the good...
posted April 14, 2002 04:59 PM
Edited By: SpencerCyclecom on 14 Apr 2002 19:24
I have to agree with Redelk and Doug Meyer. If business wants to advertise then great,but it is not fair to the paying sponsors that support this site--MUZZY-Burnaby-SpencerCycle.com ----to see companys getting a free ride selling products. Product release's are GREAT and I am for that and think it should be allowed but with limits. We advertise on one website that WILL NOT allow products to be put up by non supporting companys.We must submit our product releases and then they are posted by the webmaster.
When we post direct products on sites we contact the site and ask for advertising rates or permission to do so, FIRST!! If we do not get a response after a couple of trys we go ahead and post.If we think the rates are to high then we do not post--it is a respect thing. But we would RATHER PAY and have PERMISSION rahter then post and get called out in front of the whole site,not the image we want as a company.
Why not have a "VENDOR FORUM" or "PRODUCT RELEASES FORUM" for the paying sponsors that only they have a password for to be able to post and in that forum the sponsor be allowed to post a description and review of the product.Sorta like article.
a "FOR SALE/WANTED" forum for the site vistors to post their items
Thanks
Doug
SpencerCycle.com
____________
Thanks
Doug Ray
SpencerCycle.com
SpencerCycle Center Inc.
Spencer Performance Group Inc.
Toll Free 1-800-510-1945 ext #10
International 1-800-510-1945 ext #11
Local/Tech 1-704-642-0987 ext #12
Fax 1-704-642-0987
posted April 14, 2002 05:25 PM
Fish,
I agree that the title should start out as the author intends. But, my point is that if the "subject" of the topic evolves in a different direction then the title MIGHT be adjusted to reflect the current content.
Not a hard and fast rule, mind you, just at the moderator's discretion.
To use the lovely Princess' example, if the topic were to begin "My Muzzy dogbones are great" but then subsequent posts revealed that they were not so great, the title might be adjusted to "Muzzy dogbones-problems?" or some such. If the posts remained in keeping with the title, leave it unchanged.
Doug
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
posted April 14, 2002 05:52 PM
How about the ability to flag a topic for moderator review? Ie; someone posts, complaining about something, then later reverses their opinion, but for whatever reason, doesn't change the initial topic. Other uses could flag the topic for a moderator review. The moderator could make a judgement on whether the topic needs a name change, is appropriate, etc... And either make the change or not, and lock the topic name down and remove the review flags.
____________
82 Gpz750, 84 Ninja 900, 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy Big Bore Kit), *another* 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy custom stroke crank 1341cc motor), 2004 ZZR1200, 2005 ZX10R, 2007 ZX14, 2008 Concours 14, 2014 Versys 650, 2014 Yamaha WR450F, 2015 Ninja H2
What if something sucks? I mean.. some things are great.. and some things suck.. People are entitled to speajk their minds, no? I understand where you are coming from.. .but then I worry that the board discussion could be neutered and dissolve into a politcally correct forum where members would be afraid to say their peace....
posted April 14, 2002 06:23 PM
Re: Misleading thread titles against sponsors... I think Doug Meyer has a good point. I too am against censorship, but I wouldn't put this in that catagory. -ZXtra
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The sixth sick sheik's sixth sheep's sick!
posted April 14, 2002 06:31 PM
to the dave's:
did u just mean on the pages where u are reading the actual posts? i have done that now. good idea. but u find it useful on other pages too?
posted April 14, 2002 06:41 PM
adding a flag would certainly not be hard, i only worry about the moerator's time to review them if alot of threads get flagged. while the site is relatively small (under 2000 members), not much of a problem as people tend to police themselves. but u get big, and people start acting stupid in their attempts to get recognition in a large group of people. may get someone flaggin tons o shit. still, for the moment i think it would work. red, as this affects u more than anyone else, what r ur thoughts?
as to "censorship", i think if the title is changed to match the content of the thread, i dont see this as sensorship. all the original content is still there in the thread, it just carries a more appropriate and informative summary. i know i dont read every thread, and certainly other epoepl may get a false view of a company/product pased on titles only, without taking the time to read the thread. having said that, seems a company will receive more pro threads than con threads assuming they are a good company, as has been the case with muzzys and spencercycle from what i'v seen.
aaaugh, i dont know. guess i'm just ur stereotypical canadian in that i have no real opinion either way. apathetic? i'd tell u, but i dont care enough to have an opinion on that
posted April 14, 2002 07:20 PM
Edited By: SpencerCyclecom on 14 Apr 2002 20:29
Just noticed a business that is posting a "group buy on parts @dealer cost" in this forum.
Why would ANY future site sponsor WANT to PAY when they see stuff such as this.
How is Muzzys going to feel when they recieved a huge order from a company that is advertising a group buy such as this and Muzzy KNOWS that they are paying for a banner ad on the site that the order came from and the company making the order is not, BUT that same company is getting that business? NOT TO MENTION SELLING MUZZY PRODUCTS AT DEALER COST!!!!!!!!! What about the rest of Muzzy parts dealers?
We have run into this with our dealers too. :-(
This is prime example of what Redelk was speaking of.
Doug
SpencerCycle.com
____________
Thanks
Doug Ray
SpencerCycle.com
SpencerCycle Center Inc.
Spencer Performance Group Inc.
Toll Free 1-800-510-1945 ext #10
International 1-800-510-1945 ext #11
Local/Tech 1-704-642-0987 ext #12
Fax 1-704-642-0987
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posted April 13, 2002 04:26 PM
posted April 13, 2002 05:45 PM
posted April 13, 2002 11:39 PM
just wondering how it would be tied into the chat? i guess i took it mening more like an old fashioned text only rpg, but i guess u'r talking about something mroe like diablo. all of those online style games already have chat built in, or at least most do that i know of. anyway, i dont see that we can get something like that together. everyone would have to get a copy of the game, then we could run a server, but i doubt there's that many gaming types on here anyhow. 
Edited By: 
posted April 14, 2002 06:23 PM
posted April 14, 2002 07:18 PM
posted April 14, 2002 07:18 PM
posted April 14, 2002 07:20 PM
