aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted May 11, 2006 06:19 PM
I'm at wits end
on this one.My motor will spin without a problem with the cams and spark plugs removed.As soon as I install the cams,it just locks right up.1/4 timing mark set where the casings meet,arrows are even with the top of the head on 1 and 31 pins on Muzzy adjustable cam sprockets.Where am I going wrong?Pisser is I just had it running but wanted to double check the valve adjustments and cam settings.I haven't touched the sprocket position so I know that is correct.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
  
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 12, 2006 12:47 AM
 Edited By: NINJA12 on 12 May 2006 01:48
You are probably off one tooth on the exhaust which make everything else off.
Adjustable sprocket change the rules drastically
if the sprockets are not installed just right.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted May 12, 2006 04:03 AM
just a few questions...
So you had the engine running?
You took off the cam cover and checked the valve clearance and cam timing?
And put the cover back on without removing the cams or adjusting the cam timing?
And the engine wont turn over now?
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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aliveagain
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Posts: 5033
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posted May 12, 2006 05:53 AM
no, I've pulled the cams because it looked like it was off by a tooth.I even checked to see if all the shims were seated properly.Moved it back one tooth and no go.Dave at MUZZY'S said to put them in exactly like the stock sprockets with the arrows.When the core( for the sprocket) is welded on to the cam is it aligned to something on the cam or just welded?Marks don't seem to work.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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ninja12
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Posts: 3310
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posted May 12, 2006 06:22 AM
Edited By: ninja12 on 12 May 2006 07:23
Trust me it is VERY easy to be off by one tooth.
I have done exactly what you have.
You must set the exhaust cam perfect
or it's over. Recheck the TDC carefully before you
install, a little off on TDC can make a big difference
on what you see up top. I took a hack saw blade
and marked my sprocket with the top of cases just
for that reason. one tooth is hard to see if you don't know
what you are looking for.
Walk everything 1 tooth forward and see what you get.
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VincentHill
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posted May 12, 2006 08:48 AM
Also, you must use a Stock advancer! If not, That can really give you a headache
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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ninja12
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posted May 12, 2006 10:17 AM
Forgot about that one, but your right!
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aliveagain
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posted May 12, 2006 10:31 AM
I wasn't sure about that one Vincent,but my brother did and we 0'd the ignition advance out.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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Y2KZX12R
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Posts: 3762
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posted May 12, 2006 10:52 AM
check your PM. I live about 20 min from you so if you would like I can stop over and see whats going on ...
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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aliveagain
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Posts: 5033
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posted May 12, 2006 02:15 PM
I just came in from the garage and it ain't good.Intake cam snapped in half which means the valves can't be that good either.I guess I should have enjoyed the glow. 
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted May 12, 2006 02:18 PM
Holy Shit!! Sounds FUBAR!
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted May 13, 2006 02:52 AM
quote:
...Intake cam snapped in half..
holy schitt!!!!!
i never heard of that happening!
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This moderator uses moderation in moderation
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aliveagain
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posted May 13, 2006 02:54 AM
Don't know if I should buy a used motor and throw the head on ,aftermarket cams or what.How can I test to see if my valves are damaged?
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted May 13, 2006 03:21 AM
Disassemble the head and remove the valves if the stem is bent it wont pull thru the guide or will at least drag.. And you should be able to look at the pistons and see if they have marks where the valve head has hit them,,,,
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 13, 2006 05:03 AM
Edited By: NINJA12 on 13 May 2006 06:05
that can happen from improper torgue the cam cap down.
to check vavles pull the cams and do a leak down.
may not be as bad as you think.
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Y2KZX12R
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CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted May 13, 2006 05:06 AM
I recomend stainless valves and a radius valvejob. They may need to replace a few guides.
Have them check the cam bores carefully BEFORE they do the valve work. Check the cam holder for cracks very carefully before you send the head out. Also check the buckets and bores.
Whats the displacement of the bike? still 1199cc? If so i'd stay with a stock intake cam.
Maybe someone on here will have a nice used one for ya....
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aliveagain
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posted May 13, 2006 09:19 AM
Y2KZX12R,I'm at 1426.What am I looking for at the buckets and bore?I just got in and will be taking the head off after my nap.Once I know what I need ,I'll post in the clasifieds.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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ninja12
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Posts: 3310
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posted May 13, 2006 03:05 PM
buddy has a head for sale if you need to go that route.
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aliveagain
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posted May 13, 2006 06:55 PM
I didn't take the valves out yet but I see no marks on the pistons or valves.I did find a nick on the cam bearing plate where the cam snapped.I'm not sure if its salvageable.How do I test to see if the valves are bent?I forgot who was on my case about not buying the cylinder stud kit,but this time I'll get one.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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speedgene
Zone Head
Posts: 996
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posted May 13, 2006 10:22 PM
There are a couple of ways to check the valves. I can tell you right now... odds are you did tag one or two valves with a broken cam. One of those lobes is opening the valve far enough to tink it off square when the piston comes up only one time.
One way... is to rotate the broken cam as if you were going to check the valve lash. If you can install twice the thickness of the feeler gauge that calls for stock, then most likely the valve is bent... being the reason why the lash is so wide. The other way is to move the cam chain away from the crankshaft, so you can spin (no cams) the engine over. With a compression tester, see if the needle will move to create compression.
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E-tard
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aliveagain
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Posts: 5033
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posted May 14, 2006 02:21 AM
I was hoping it was a little easier like rolling the stem on a flat edge.All valves are sitting square in the seats.I had taken the cams out several times since I heard it pop.There are marks on the upper cam shell where the guide, or whatever its called,rounded off the edge.I say this because at the time,I thought the cam just wasn't positioned right,and when it popped,it was the cam moving in place.I just saw ZXLNT's post about checking for drag.Looks like i'll be using the valve spring compressor more than I thought.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted May 14, 2006 07:26 AM
If you have the valves out of the head, spin them up in either a drill press or a hand drill. If they are straight, there will be no wobbling at all on the head of the valve, if there is a wobble, you need at least one valve.....
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aliveagain
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Posts: 5033
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posted May 14, 2006 08:08 AM
I wish to thank all for the help,but to be honest,I wish class would end for the summer! 
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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speedgene
Zone Head
Posts: 996
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posted May 14, 2006 02:29 PM
If the cams are out, that's even better. Pull the plugs. Since it doesn't matter where the crank is positioned (when the cams are removed) blow air down the plug hole and then listen for air excaping from the carbs or the exhaust pipes. Most likely the exhaust were touched.
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E-tard
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mannyyo
Parking Attendant
Posts: 1
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posted May 14, 2006 03:44 PM
I need upper front cowl fairing for zx 12 2002 ASAP
 
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